Were Andrew and Jonathan truly villains?

[Chosen Enemy]

Big bads and villains on Buffy don't have to be demonic. And in season 6 we got 3 humans who were fighting Buffy. Poorly, but still. Warren was the main villain out of the three, he was the leader. But were Andrew and Jonathan villains? Were they really evil? Or just poor little boys who feared life/Warren?

 

[The Unspoken]

Andrew is a sociopath. A cute and spunky sociopath, but a sociopath nonetheless.

Jonathan however came across as an insecure boy who caved in to peer pressure.

 

[sisterofmercy]

I think Jonathan just wanted to feel important and like he was part of something. He never fit in with anyone at high school and always seemed to be jealous of Buffy having a group of friends behind her even though she was a bit different to the norm. Andrew I think was just caught up in it all, I think he thought he was reliving what he read in comic books and didn't take the time to consider it was real life.

So I'm not sure if that makes Andrew evil. I certainly think Jonathan was the most innocent of them all.

 

[Aloverssoulz]

I don't find them bad. I think Andrew is a tool that is somewhat uncaring, but Jonathan is a nice guy that is just weak willed and wanted to find somewhere he could fit, get noticed and be respected.

 

[Icarium]

I consider Andrew a caricature other than an actual character but he is rather vile, IMO. The writers presenting him as cute and funny in S7 was quite a WTF moment for me.

 

[zobothehobo]

Andrew to me is the ultimate follower. He's the weakling who will follow any strong leader... as long as he doesn't have to make the decisions. He followed his brother with the raising demons, he followed Warren with his "let's take over Sunnydale/quest for evil" thing, and he then followed Buffy (and he still follows her). So as far as I'm concerned... Andrew just followed the wrong person.

I think sisterofmercy was right in her assessment of Jonathan. I think he just wanted to be a part of something. Something that mattered in some way... good or bad. He couldn't be the hero (which he tried in Superstar), so he was the villain.

So no, I wouldn't characterize either character as "evil." Warren on the other hand, he was evil.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Warren wasn't even evil. The 'trio' was just very lame and poor attempt to create a 'villain' just to give some action to what would ultimately have been considered a soap opera.

 

[prophecygrrl]

I think they were all villains. Warren was clearly the worst, but Andrew and Jonathan just following his lead is still really bad. Dead Things makes me cringe every time. Just thinking about it makes me a little bit sick, because if the mind control thing hadn't have failed, Jonathan and Andrew most likely would have gone through with raping Katrina. In the grand scheme of things, maybe their motivations aren't as bad as Warren's, and sometimes even understandable. But it doesn't make what they do any more okay compared to the damage and hurt they cause. They don't even realize that some of the things they plan on doing are evil until it's pointed out to them. And by their intended victim, no less.

 

[brinkster130]

I didn't think of Warren, Andrew or Jonathan as villains/big bads. They certainly wished were....however I only saw them as weak willed, unintelligent, desperate, lonely people who wanted to make a name for themselves.

I thought the trio was lame.

 

[white avenger]

As I recall the scene, Warren asked Jonathan and Andrew if they wanted to "team up and take over Sunnydale." Knowing the probable implications of what that taking over would involve, and doing it anyway, constitutes premeditated criminal acts, therefore they are indeed criminals. And Andrew is a murderer. You might consider him cute and lovable, but he is, nonetheless, a murderer. Of course, since just about everyone in the Buffyverse has committed crimes just serious if not more so, some even going so far as trying to end the world as we know it, I guess being just being a murderer isn't all THAT bad...