Wes/Fred Love - Epitome of Immaturity

Spike didn't have a soul. Plus, the Spuffy was always supposed to be stalkerish and creepy. But Spike never idealized Buffy. He was obsessed with her, but he definitely saw her flaws.
 
As Joss Whedon often says... happy couples are boring. That is why I am glad that she had been consumed in the fires of ressurection just as they got together. No time for the romance to get boring.
 
By the by, love the Avi, F E 007.

One thing I do think that some people forget, those who support a ship as well as those who don't (and I mean ANY ship), is that what two people look for and see in each other can't be defined into sane and rational and stalkerish and irrational. Yes, Wes is a man who had serious issues, and he may have mostly attracted to Fred cuz she is a person who is somewhat naive... but everyone in the group had always remarked at her strength (to come back from a demon dimension and refind herself). Wes know she is not a pushover... even though many people like to think of her as one. Fred was always looking for her knight in shining armor (one who could supplicate Angel). Wes may have just had the personality traits that best suited her... she is after all agenious and everyone talks like "oh, poor Fred, that domineering Wesley is obsessed with her. I think it's sickening that she would fall for a guy like that. What is she thinking?"... cuz don't you think she can tell that about him.
No one person on Earth has the right to downgrade or belittle two people's relationship, cuz frankly, there is always more to it than they will ever know. Gunn had said to Fred back in S3 that he honestly thought that Fred and Wes had something going on, there was a connection and affection between the two, but the way many people make it sopund, you'd think that Wes was going after a step-child (or something equally sick and wrong)... and not a brave young strong woman who endured a hell dimension for 5 years. I do agree that they should have done something with the story two seasons ago, rather than drag it out for two and a 1/2 seasons... but then it worked for Friends.
So I am not a supporter nor a disliker... just a casual observer who felt he needed to point out a few things you already know.
::dance::

Also... Hitome has some very wonderful points. Any person who is going to be untrue enough to lust after one person while in the arms of another needs a serious mental tidy involving a pitching wedge and a bear trap. Players seem to think that they are cool and special because they can lie to a person (anyone with 1/2 a brain can do that) and put themselves above all others. Not all players... I know a few who are upfront about it and will let the woman know that she may never be the only one. If you are not totally into one person... you'd best be letting them know that and, together, see if there's a future (probably not, but that depends on what the other person thinks). It is selfish, cruel, and wrong; and (yes, I am shaking my finger at you as you read this - jk) if you are in a relationship and doing something like that... BAD U.
And Wes does have a reason Hitome. He is human... and not a one of the billions of us that have ever lived has been perfect or even close to it. Still... it's wasn't fair to Lilah, but she knew and accepted that... Soul or not, Harmony didn't know, hench Spike's was a more evil act... but then again... what do we expect from a vampire???
 
No said:
No one person on Earth has the right to downgrade or belittle two people's relationship, cuz frankly, there is always more to it than they will ever know
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True, but you can criticize a relationship if it isn't healthy. If one person emotionally abuses the other or something I don't think its right or normal to talk about how much the two are in love. As you can guess, I'm usually not a romantic so I'm not one for the whole everlasting love thing. However, I do see your point about relationships being more complex than most people give them credit for being.

No said:
Also... Hitome has some very wonderful points. Any person who is going to be untrue enough to lust after one person while in the arms of another needs a serious mental tidy involving a pitching wedge and a bear trap.
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🙂, 🙂


I agree that souless Spike was a lot sicker than Wesley. That's why even though I want Buffy to be with Spike now that he is a person and has a soul, I never cared for Buffy's relationship with souless Spike. I personally thought that it was sick, but great tv. Wesley and Fred' relationship is sick, and doesn't have the redeming qualities of Spike and Buffy since it's borring and disgustingly sweet.
 
"As Joss Whedon often says... happy couples are boring. That is why I am glad that she had been consumed in the fires of ressurection just as they got together. No time for the romance to get boring."

I found Wes and Fred boring when they were unhappy. They just didn't have the chemistry for romance - as far as I was concerned. Too adolescent.



Yes, Spike's obsssession of Buffy was unhealthy. But I found Wes' obssession of Fred to be a lot more unhealthy. At least Spike had a good idea of Buffy's true nature. He didn't view her in such an unrealistic way, like Wes did toward Fred.
 
Do you live inside Wesley's brain?.How do you know how he saw her?,the point is that he loved her and she loved him back. Childish?,inmature?,whatever...who cares?. The important here is that they were in love with each other.
 
I cared! I didn't want to be forced to watch a love affair between two people who regarded each other through rose-colored glasses and acted like a bunch of teenagers - especially since they were adults. He thought she was the epitome of female purity and she thought he was some kind of wise, knight-in-shinning armor. Talk about immaturity!

Love isn't enough for me. Sorry. Wes and Fred were not meant for each other, as far as I'm concerned. If Fred had not died, I suspect that she would have treated him the same way she had treated Charles and Knox, once she realized that she couldn't disregard Wes' true nature.
 
I don't believe that Wes and Fred's relationship was in any way immature or sickening. I mean, in S3 Wes thought Fred was this wonderful woman who survived demons for five years, and then could adjust to the world that she never realized she would return to. Also the fact that she's a well learned scientist and has amazing parents; something Wes never had. I think they found in each other a comfort. Fred was the science, Wes was the magic. It's improbable, but who can analyze love or any of those emotions? Of course, love isn't enough. Not for me, at any rate. But, they've been friends and went through so many ordeals together. Well, not always together.
 
I also don't feel that Wes and Fred were in any way 'immature'.

LadyLavinia said:
If Fred had not died, I suspect that she would have treated him the same way she had treated Charles and Knox, once she realized that she couldn't disregard Wes' true nature.
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You say she would treat him like crap once she saw his flaws. Well...I think she's seen a lot of his flaws over the years. He takes Angel's son for god's sake. Are you saying she never saw all those thiings he did? She did she all those things. His "true nature," as you seem to want to call it. And still, through all that she loves him. Despite the things he has done in the past. How is that immature?
 
Ahhh...very true...I forgot about that little detail...ok...big detail...thanks for correcting me on that Jacklyn...

Although...I still don't believe Fred/Wesley was immature...but that's just my own opinion...
 
I've noticed that Fred has reacted in two ways, regarding Wes' flaws.

In regard to Connor's kidnapping, she shunned him, along with the others. In regard to his affair with Lilah, she first dropped any idea about pursuing him. And when they had discussed the matter in "Players", she reacted with disbelief and slight disgust.

However, in regard to his actions in "Billy" and the shooting of RogerBot in "Lineage", she made excuses for Wes' behavior. In "Billy", she told Wes that the person who chased her wasn't really him, but merely a possession. She refused to acknowledge that what she had seen was his darker side. And in "Lineage", she had excused Wes' actions on the grounds that 'somehow, he knew that RogerBot wasn't really his father' and that it was understandable that he shot the cyborg nine times . . . out of protection for his friends.

She either reacted negatively or pretend that Wes didn't have a dark side. But I have never known her to be fully accepting of it.
 
LadyLavinia said:
In regard to Connor's kidnapping, she shunned him, along with the others.
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She was actually the one lightly pushing to get him back at the end of S3, since she was having trouble managing the books herself. So she was open-minded to having him return.
 
SimplyQueen said:
She was actually the one lightly pushing to get him back at the end of S3, since she was having trouble managing the books herself. So she was open-minded to having him return.
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That was because she was desperate for his help. In fact, Gunn, at first, tried to get Angel to forgive Wes. And he, like Fred, eventually followed Angel's example. Only Cordelia was never willing to forgive Wes for Connor's kidnapping. Also, Gunn had also approached Wes for help, when Fred's body was taken over by those beings (I forgot the name of the episode).

However, may I remind you that when Angelus had revealed Wes' affair with Lilah in S4, Fred had reacted with disgust and ceased her pursuit of him and tried to renew her relationship with Charles. And when the discussion of Connor, Cordelia and Lilah came up between Wes and Fred in "Players", her disgust remained. Even worse, Wes did not react well to Fred's narrow-mindedness.

Amy Acker once said that Wes and Fred could have a meaningful relationship, once they dealt with his affair with Lilah. You know what? I don't recall Wes and Fred ever discussing Lilah in S5. If they did, please point out the episode.
 
AshSan said:
We don't see everything on screen do we?
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True, but if the show is worth anything we should see everything important on screen. A tv show is a text. It presents a story and it's just not good story telling to create major plot developments and not tell the audience about them. That was my main problem with S5 of Angel. The writers tried for stand alone eps and in the process lost the continuality and realistic reactions I had come to expect from Buffy and Angel. The whole Nina relationship is a good example of this. We can speculate as to "what happened" between Angel and Nina or Wesley and Fred outside of what happens on screen, but in the end it is just fan fiction. Only what we see on screen matters. That's not to say that speculation isn't fun though. 🙂
 
Fred and Wesly is one of my favorite shippers. They were so in love. They were a perfect couple, no one could have been a better match then Fred and Wes was. :hearton: Fred and Wesly :hearton: very awsome shipper
 
--The Fallen-- said:
Fred and Wesly is one of my favorite shippers. They were so in love. They were a perfect couple, no one could have been a better match then Fred and Wes was. :hearton: Fred and Wesly :hearton: very awsome shipper
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I see that you're one of those who prefer adolescent-style romances in which each partner views the other as perfect. :hmm: :hmm:
 
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