Wesley and Weapons

[white avenger]

That's because Wesley is an awesome action hero and Riley is a doof. 🙂

But seriously I always assumed, before Wesley started using guns, that they weren't really effective against demons. (I mean, some of Intiative are shown using automatic weapons in 'Primeval', during the big moster battle, but besides that...), And against vampires they're just useless.

But Wes used a shotgun on the Beast, and on a few demonic bar patrons whilst trawling the underworld with Faith, with some effect.
It's a puzzle...maybe everybody in the Buffyverse made the same assumption as me, except Wesley. 🙂

The military weapons that the Initiative used (excluding the electric bolt ray gun thing) unless they were loaded with some sort of special ammunition, are loaded with what is called armor piercing, non expanding rounds. That means that tey would penetrate one side of their target, pass completely through, and exit the other side with a minimum of tissue damage. In other words, they wouldn't make a big hole in whatever they hit, and would pass on through. (The theory behind this is that killing one soldier removes a single combatant, whereas only wounding him takes out at least two, possibly three, the wounded man and the ones taking care of him) Riley's military issue M9 Beretta would have only made Angel madder than he already was. Also, military training teaches to aim at center mass, chest and stomach, simply because it's a bigger target. Unless Riley and his friends "un-learned" their basic training, something far harder to do that the initial learning was, they would instinctively aim for a vampire's chest, making him very angry and not much else. Even a head shot, if thy managed it, would punch a hole and keep going, with minimal tissue damage

Wesley, however, carried a big bore handgun, almost certainly .45 or 10mm, and had no such military training. A bullet that size hitting a vampire on the head would literally explode the skull, removing a large section of brain tissue. Maybe not quite as effective as capitation, but certainly incapacitating. A 12 gauge shotgun blast at relatively close range, on the other hand, quite likely WOULD decapitate the vampire, literally fulfilling the old term, "blowing his head off."

Of course, all of that only applies to vampires, but Wes' big bore weaponry should have been vastly more effective than standard military issue on whatever he shot. Also, it must be mentioned, the Initiative was most likely more concerned with capturing their targets. Wes had no such desire.

(P S- Never bring up the subject of guns to a shooter unless you're ready for a lengthy dissertation on the subject)

 

[thetopher]

The military weapons that the Initiative used (excluding the electric bolt ray gun thing) unless they were loaded with some sort of special ammunition, are loaded with what is called armor piercing, non expanding rounds. That means that tey would penetrate one side of their target, pass completely through, and exit the other side with a minimum of tissue damage. In other words, they wouldn't make a big hole in whatever they hit, and would pass on through. (The theory behind this is that killing one soldier removes a single combatant, whereas only wounding him takes out at least two, possibly three, the wounded man and the ones taking care of him) Riley's military issue M9 Beretta would have only made Angel madder than he already was. Also, military training teaches to aim at center mass, chest and stomach, simply because it's a bigger target. Unless Riley and his friends "un-learned" their basic training, something far harder to do that the initial learning was, they would instinctively aim for a vampire's chest, making him very angry and not much else. Even a head shot, if thy managed it, would punch a hole and keep going, with minimal tissue damage

Wesley, however, carried a big bore handgun, almost certainly .45 or 10mm, and had no such military training. A bullet that size hitting a vampire on the head would literally explode the skull, removing a large section of brain tissue. Maybe not quite as effective as capitation, but certainly incapacitating. A 12 gauge shotgun blast at relatively close range, on the other hand, quite likely WOULD decapitate the vampire, literally fulfilling the old term, "blowing his head off."

Of course, all of that only applies to vampires, but Wes' big bore weaponry should have been vastly more effective than standard military issue on whatever he shot. Also, it must be mentioned, the Initiative was most likely more concerned with capturing their targets. Wes had no such desire.

(P S- Never bring up the subject of guns to a shooter unless you're ready for a lengthy dissertation on the subject)

Ah, I am now suitably schooled. Thank you. 🙂

Your explanation makes a lot of sense.

 

[Xin Rong]

In my opinion, Wesley's use of weapons was an acknowledgement of his lack of strength.

No other core character had to resort to this weakness, IMO Riley is not core, and no other character felt the need to resort to weaponry, although they maybe should have.

 

[thetopher]

In my opinion, Wesley's use of weapons was an acknowledgement of his lack of strength.

No other core character had to resort to this weakness, IMO Riley is not core, and no other character felt the need to resort to weaponry, although they maybe should have.

So you're saying that Wesley was weak for using guns, but that other characters should have. Not sure I follow that 'hate Wesley at all costs thinking'. 🙂

Plus every character uses weapons, even Buffy and Faith use weapons, (Axes, swords, knives, crossbows) I think you mean firearms, in which case Xander used a gun a couple of times, plus damn near everybody used tranq/dart guns at some point.

But I guess they're all just weak too. (C'mon Fred, fight fair, don't be a wimp!) 😛

 

[Xin Rong]

No my point is despite the rationale of someone using guns in a fight against evil, only Wes has to, because he has a Zeppo experience and can't deal with his zepponess.

 

[white avenger]

No my point is despite the rationale of someone using guns in a fight against evil, only Wes has to, because he has a Zeppo experience and can't deal with his zepponess.

More accurately, only Wes CHOOSE to.

Restricting yourself to primitive weapons such as swords, axes, and crossbows, when more modern, more effective ones are available might be more romantic and dashing, but it's also taking unnecessary risks, bordering on being suicidal. Certainly, Wes wasn't as strong as the demons that he fought, so he used his guns to give himself more of an advantage. How does that in any way make him a Zeppo? He is, essentially, a professional demon fighter. He puts his life on the line with every confrontation, and for some reason you think that he doesn't have the right to use any advantage that he can lay his hands on that might accomplish his mission and, hopefully, live to fight another day? If making the choice to use a 12 gauge shotgun against something with at lest 4 or 5 times my strength in preference to a pointy wooden stick makes Wes a Zeppo, whatever that is, then I'll be a Zeppo too, regardless of what everyone around me has chosen to do. Better a live Zeppo than a dead pointy stick fighter.

 

[FlowerPower]

Plus, Wesley may not have preternatural vampiric strength and he's not built like a mesomorph like Gunn. Wes is a classic ectomorph. However, he displayed lots of strength. He can be very good with swords in hand to hand combat against demonically strong and skilled opponents- see Waiting in the Wings, There's No Pltz Like Pltz Grb, and Lineage. He has a TON of endurance- he can get back up and fight after injuries that would make a weaker man just sit and cry. His hand to hand combat from S3 and even S2 on appeared good. In group fight scenes like in First Impressions, Untouched, or Shiny Happy People, it looked like he was fighting with strength and dexterity and pulling almost as weight as Gunn and in the S2 eps, more than Darla-addled Angel. He can ably decapitate a scary looking demon with one blow (Ground State).

It would pretty much be taken as read that Wesley is a very physically strong man if he wasn't competing with vampires Angel and Spike, vampirically infused Miracle Child Connor, and Gunn who is so naturally built that even Angel considers him formidable.

 

[thetopher]

I certainly don't remember Wesley as being weak, he just got stronger/tougher as the seasons went on.
True, he lalways had brains to 'fall back on' but he handles himself like a pretty good demon fighter for the most part.🙂

 

[Xin Rong]

I seem to be in the minority here, but I just don't get the Wesley love, I think he's a bit of a tool. He's just constantly dealing with his own insecurities, in a way that doesn't seem to lead to any kind of personal growth, he just gets worse and worse, but we can call that 'character development' so that's ok, supposedly?

I just see his use of weapons as yet another compensation for his general lackness.