Wesley's Selection

[NoShip]

What does Wesley's selection as Field Watcher for the only two slayers in the entire world say about the Council and it's capabilities & priorities & resources?

 

[NotASlayer]

I am trying to find a polite way to say "That they are idiots."

I may have failed.

 

[famicommander]

The fact that the Watchers shout out Aikido commands in battle for their Slayers says it all.

Aikido is a fairly modern martial art that is practiced almost exclusively in a compliant manner, meaning 99.99% of all Aikido practitioners on earth cannot fight at all. In Aikido you go through the motions in an extremely slow fashion and your opponent allows themselves to be grabbed and thrown. And that's the whole martial art. There are some effective joint locks and holds involved but if you were actually trying to teach someone to fight you'd teach them Jiu Jitsu and/or Judo. Because Jiu Jitsu and Judo actually teach you how to do moves on someone who is resisting you, and they teach you how to set up those moves. Rarely would your opponent just allow you to casually stroll up, grab their wrist in two places, and then manipulate them into a disadvantageous position.

Shouting Aikido moves out in the middle of an active fight would be a great way to get your Slayer killed.

A smart watcher would be teaching their Slayer boxing, Judo, Jiu-Jitsu, freestyle wrestling, Greco-Roman wrestling, Muay Thai, Lethwei, Sanda, Savate, K1, Kyokushin, Kudo, Dutch Style Kickboxing, etc. Styles that actually simulate the reality of a fight, or at least one aspect of a fight. And obviously there would be a lot more weapons training on top of that.

 

[thetopher]

My guess? Nepotism, at least to a degree. Wesley's father was a retired Watcher who was clearly held in some high esteem by the WC, and he was a strict disciplinarian regarding his son so Wesley had to work incredibly hard to prove himself. In the academy he was one of the bright stars, apparently.

Add to that Wesley's tendency to brown-nose with his superiors (up to and including Angel, when he was his boss) and sniping with his co-workers (Giles and Cordelia on either show) probably made him a shoe-in for the position; I imagine the WC is very political and about such assignments.

And I will point out Wesley's (few) good points show in S3; he's organised and has researched Sunnydale and the history of the Hellmouth thoroughly (certainly more than S1 Giles had) and was focussed and goal-oriented with his assignments to the slayers, he was actually quite tolerant/thick-skinned of all the crap that got flung at him by Giles, the scoobies and both slayers and tried his very best up until Graduation Day.

 

[garfan]

My guess? Nepotism, at least to a degree. Wesley's father was a retired Watcher who was clearly held in some high esteem by the WC, and he was a strict disciplinarian regarding his son so Wesley had to work incredibly hard to prove himself. In the academy he was one of the bright stars, apparently.

Add to that Wesley's tendency to brown-nose with his superiors (up to and including Angel, when he was his boss) and sniping with his co-workers (Giles and Cordelia on either show) probably made him a shoe-in for the position; I imagine the WC is very political and about such assignments.

And I will point out Wesley's (few) good points show in S3; he's organised and has researched Sunnydale and the history of the Hellmouth thoroughly (certainly more than S1 Giles had) and was focussed and goal-oriented with his assignments to the slayers, he was actually quite tolerant/thick-skinned of all the crap that got flung at him by Giles, the scoobies and both slayers and tried his very best up until Graduation Day.

the phrasing of stuff in season 1 suggests the Hellmouth hadn't been properly researched by that point

 

[thetopher]

the phrasing of stuff in season 1 suggests the Hellmouth hadn't been properly researched by that point

Then some cursory research of the town- Sunnydale- that the slayer was moving to would surely bring up it's history, no? Earthquakes, cults, body count. That kind of knowledge would be suggestive of high supernatural activity.

But Giles didn't bother to do that. Maybe he was in a hurry to get to his assignment or Wesley had more time. *shrug*

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

I would probably compare the current state of the Watcher's Council as that of the Monarchy or the State Church. In that both institutions still garner a lot of respect in British life, but both are felt to be in their twilight, and aren't quite getting the calibre of talent that they used to. Like, Watchers in the 1800s would have been accomplished demon hunters and trainers in their own right, now, it's a job the academics don't really want.

My guess is, Watcher Intelligence is largely confined to the UK and the Commonwealth. Southern California would have been the margins of the Spainish Empire, and was probably under the control of either the Inquisition or the Church, who probably solved the problem by killing a bunch of diabolists and pouring a lot of holy water on the site several hundred years ago, so it wouldn't be in the Watchers' records. Both the Mayor and the US Government had an interest in keeping the site secret, so it probably wasn't in the Time-Life Series.

However, I could see Wesley as being the one in charge of gathering all the info on Sunnydale, of calling the Colonial Archive, and getting what they needed. That's a reason to send someone, he is the subject matter expert on Sunnydale.

 

[November]

What does Wesley's selection as Field Watcher for the only two slayers in the entire world say about the Council and it's capabilities & priorities & resources?

They didn't expect the slayers to live long, one had already died once. So they may have assumed Wesley would be replaced very quickly when the next Slayer in line was called. A Slayer that may have been identified and trained earlier by a more competent Watcher.

Being a watcher is also a dangerous gig. Both Buffy and Faiths first watchers were killed. I really don't think that the Watchers Council expected it to be a long term job for Wesley.

 

[garfan]

Then some cursory research of the town- Sunnydale- that the slayer was moving to would surely bring up it's history, no? Earthquakes, cults, body count. That kind of knowledge would be suggestive of high supernatural activity.

But Giles didn't bother to do that. Maybe he was in a hurry to get to his assignment or Wesley had more time. *shrug*

Actually he did, considering his explaining the Hellmoutjh, which he seemed to have discovered himself, was how we were introduced to the concept in the first episode

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

Alt: Buffy has completed her training, right? She's killed an vampire with her wits alone. All she needs is a Wesley. She just needs someone who can research, use magic, and act as go between her and the council. Percy decided to be head boy, but he does fit for what a adult Slayer would need in a watcher. Maybe the plan was to reassign Giles to another girl, before he was fired?

 

[thetopher]

Actually he did, considering his explaining the Hellmoutjh, which he seemed to have discovered himself, was how we were introduced to the concept in the first episode

Actually Giles tells Buffy and everybody about 'the Hellmouth' in the second episode- 'The Harvest'- after he's had plenty of time to research the town's history along with Willow.

The first person who mentions 'the mouth of hell' is the super-useful Angel, in the very first episode. He warns Buffy about the harvest as well, she tells Giles when he finds her at the Bronze and he's all puzzled.


Of course Wesley has the benefit of hindsight in comparison to Giles, but he strikes me as the type of person who would've done all that anyway, if he'd arrived in town instead of Giles.

 

[garfan]

Actually Giles tells Buffy and everybody about 'the Hellmouth' in the second episode- 'The Harvest'- after he's had plenty of time to research the town's history along with Willow.

The first person who mentions 'the mouth of hell' is the super-useful Angel, in the very first episode. He warns Buffy about the harvest as well, she tells Giles when he finds her at the Bronze and he's all puzzled.


Of course Wesley has the benefit of hindsight in comparison to Giles, but he strikes me as the type of person who would've done all that anyway, if he'd arrived in town instead of Giles.

remember the Time/Life joke in the first ep? He says he's pretty sure the town is a mystical convergence, which he says because he's been researching

 

[thetopher]

remember the Time/Life joke in the first ep? He says he's pretty sure the town is a mystical convergence, which he says because he's been researching

Yes, but all the 'mouth of Hell' stuff with The Master and his apocalypse ritual, the actual imminent threat, he had to specifically research on in the second episode. 'Mystical convergence' is kinda vague tbh.
I maintain that he clearly didn't research as much as he could and certainly not as much as Wesley had regarding the history of the place.

 

[NotASlayer]

It's a bit since I watched all of S1 and S3, but might Giles' research be the reason why there was stuff for Wesley to research? Giles not only having uncovered things, but discovered sources to research.

Otherwise, I would say it's in-character for Wesley to be doing that kind of research, no matter how he was able to do it.

 

[thetopher]

I think generally Giles is smarter than Wesley with his research skills and overall recall ability (being older and more experienced), but Wes tends to be more diligent and thorough in his methodology.

I imagine that in a different time and place Wesley and Willow would bond over research techniques and annotation styles. 🙂

 

[Bop]

It doesn't make sense that they put a considerable amount of resources and watchers behind potentials and then don't do the same for slayers- when their interest in potentials is all about them maybe becoming slayers. Maybe they're making some use out of the majority of potentials who aren't called but that's never confirmed.

 

[NotASlayer]

It doesn't make sense that they put a considerable amount of resources and watchers behind potentials and then don't do the same for slayers- when their interest in potentials is all about them maybe becoming slayers. Maybe they're making some use out of the majority of potentials who aren't called but that's never confirmed.

Buffy not getting a salary never made the slightest bit of sense.

Maybe Travers is just a jerk.

 

[NoShip]

It doesn't make sense that they put a considerable amount of resources and watchers behind potentials and then don't do the same for slayers- when their interest in potentials is all about them maybe becoming slayers. Maybe they're making some use out of the majority of potentials who aren't called but that's never confirmed.

I think the problem is that The Watchers were great MacGuffins & that is about it.
Outside of Giles & Wesley, Watchers are never characterized. Even Quenten Travers is left as a blank space spewing lines that never really lead anywhere. Quenten drives the plot, but, is never a character. None of the other Watchers make much of an impression.

So, Narratively, the Watchers are living versions of The Codex, The Glove of Minehgon, The Box of Gavrok, The Blessed Sword, etc., etc., etc. Nothing the Watchers do is going to make sense because they really don't exist outside the scenes they appear in.

 

[garfan]

looks like I need to familiarize myself with the comment feature. So I think the reason Willow and Wes don't get on is Willow is actually an insular introverted person and Wes is an outsider trying to replace one of her in group.

 

[Kendar]

My guess? Nepotism, at least to a degree. Wesley's father was a retired Watcher who was clearly held in some high esteem by the WC, and he was a strict disciplinarian regarding his son so Wesley had to work incredibly hard to prove himself. In the academy he was one of the bright stars, apparently....

Don't really have to guess. Not only was Wesley's father a Watcher, but Giles was a 3rd generation Watcher. It pretty obviously seems to be a family "calling".