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WhyCantiStay

Please, Wesley...
Joined
Feb 27, 2018
Messages
38
Age
30
Location
Maryland
I'm so excited to be here! I've been a Buffy fan since I can remember, and I've been in the fandom since around the time season 8 started. I've been over on Slay Alive since that time, so some of you might know me as VampSlayer from around there (that name was taken over here; RIP). I'm a huge Fred/Illyria fan, thus why my name and icon are decked out with them. My name is TJ, or Teej, so yeah! I'll be lurking around here often, and I may even reply here and there when I feel crazy.
 
Hi @WhyCantiStay ! Welcome to the boards. At some point I'd love to get your opinions on Angel s11 and what you think of Illangel!

Thank you!!

Angel season 11? What, what is this thing that does not exist? haha!! To me, it's like Fight Club. We don't talk about it. But nah, seriously, Angel Season 11 is garbage, and I tried to like it so much. When I miss the IDW trash post-ATF, you know it's bad. The Illyria and Angel hook up is nonsense, if they slept together or not. I guess you could argue that Fred's influence caused Illyria to do it, as it's well been established that Fred has had some sort of attraction to Angel in the past, but even if that's the case, it wasn't handled well. The Fred/Illyria situation has not been handled well at all since Season 10, but Season 11 straight up butchered Illyria as a character, with little help from the previous season.

Sorry, I'm ranting now! I'm just very emotional about the entire situation, haha. I'm open to Fred and Angel getting together romantically, but the way they tried to get there was awful. And I do prefer them as platonic, so I'd need to be sold on it. Angel with Illyria? Never in a million years, especially when she isn't written in character. I was deep into Spike/Illyria back in the day during AtF, but Illyria isn't even written as the same character anymore. Her growth as a character has really been disrespected by writers, on both ends of the spectrum. She's either a human hating monster or this enlightened goddess, when she's really someone who has gained some humanity herself over time. The notion that she only has remorse BECAUSE of Fred's influence now is insulting to her character. Fred's "influence" started from the very beginning, but I hate that they turned Illyria back into a monster in season 10 just because Fred returned. It made no sense with her progression. And their entire situation has been handled sloppily with little explanation.

So in short: Angel/Fred - I could dig it, maybe? Angel/Illyria - Kill me. Season 11 in general - it's better to ignore it completely and make up for yourself what Angel was doing during that time.
 
Mrs Gordo
Mrs Gordo
I like you already!! I agree with all of this.
ChaseRules
ChaseRules
Nice post. I totally agree that one reason I don't like the comics that much .
Welcome to the boards! It looks like you have no problem expressing your opinions and you are right about Illyria, who in "Time Bomb" killed both Angel and Spike in one time line. Jump right in, we don't bite except for the few days around the full moon.
 
Thank you all for the welcomes! I really appreciate it!

Welcome to the boards @WhyCantiStay

Are you more a Fred fan, or an Illyria fan? Or are they equal?

I've went back and forth throughout the years! They're soooo different and awesome for completely different reasons. I probably identify with Fred more because she's kind of bookish, yet very strong in her own way. I always feel amazed when I think about her surviving on her own for years in that cave. Illyria, on the other hand, I find extremely compelling. I love the concept of a God-King being reduced to basically nothing; and plus she's just very fun to watch on screen, her movements. Illyria feeling more and more human is one of my favorite arcs in the Buffyverse, so that's why I'm so hard on the most recent seasons for their handling of her.

That said, I still can't pick one over the other, overall. I think Illyria has the potential to be more interesting when she's written well, but she's really been reduced to a plot device for everyone and everything but herself lately. Her powers are limitless, when she's most interesting when they're extremely limited. When she was "killed off" in season 9, I would have given anything to have her back, but given what we've been given, I wish they'd just resurrected Fred and left Illyria gone. It was the perfect sendoff for Illyria's character, for better or worse.

I feel like Fred's death is cheapened, also, by her resurrection in season 10, but there were so many rumors of the same thing happening in the hypothetical Angel season 6 that I kind of expected it to happen at some point, especially once we saw Illyria in Fred's form near the end of season 9. I'm just not into this whole sharing a body thing, with what it's done to Illyria; it also feels like it's already been done before in AtF, right? (And better...)

So if I was given the question "Who would you prefer to be in the comics at the moment?" I would say Fred. While it does cheapen her death a good bit, I'm GLAD Fred has a chance to live on. It wasn't written extremely well, but it's how it is, and since she's back keep her back. I also love that she's really the only connection Angel has to his past adventures since the writers like to ignore Gunn and Connor. Their dynamic and friendship is really close to my heart. Illyria is a shadow of what she used to be (like in AtF or Illyria: Haunted, even if it isn't seen as 100% canon), and it feels like she should be put out of her misery which makes me revert to the "she should have stayed dead in season 9" argument. But it would feel repetitive to kill her off again now.

So there's my essay that answered tons of questions you didn't ask! In short: I love them both for super different reasons, but Amy Acker's performance as both is what makes them still so lovable.
 
Welcome to the boards. I'm a huge fan of Fred, I find Illyria fascinating but kind of regret that they had to kill of the their second female character of two in order to get her. (him?) I really believe that killing off both Cordelia and Fred killed the joy of the show and ended any chance for it to be renewed/continued as a TV show.

I am a firm Fred/Gunn shipper. I think theirs was the happiest and sanest relationship on Angel and possibly the entire Buffyverse, and I was sad to see it torn up in Supersymmetry by writers who apparently needed to destroy something for a 'ship that never happened and didn't really strike me as being healthy even as a potential relationship.
 
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Welcome to the boards! It looks like you have no problem expressing your opinions and you are right about Illyria, who in "Time Bomb" killed both Angel and Spike in one time line. Jump right in, we don't bite except for the few days around the full moon.
And don't worry about that since nice cages we can stay in . Some of them even have cable 😀

@WhyCantiStay I like how you like Fred /IIIyria . And I myself never saw Fred as going out with Angel so yes . Plus IIIyria should have been pared up with Spike IMO.
 
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