What a cool mom.

[JCC]

Taking a beer doesn´t hurt anyone does it? What about 10 beers? 20? Getting in the car and drive? Oh no wait. That´s not legal is it? Who cares? It´s a stupid law anyway.

I haven't, and would never have, condoned driving under the influence of marijuana. Drug use is something for your own home and when you step out of your own home, the rights of the community supercede yours and by placing them in danger you're doing something irrational and inexcusable.

I know what I´m doing. Nothing´s gonna happen... What about taking one beer everyday? 4? Is there a limit? There´s not harm in taking a drink or use drugs. And if there is it´ll only hurt myself and no one else. Same with steroids? Tell that to all the family and close friends of addicts. Or all the ones that did something "bad" the ONE AND ONLY time they tried "what ever". I´m not saying being a user has a guarantee to always make a bad impact on the user or people around them. But never? Oh please.

You should never live to please those around you. Besides, alcohol addiction is fairly common and it's dealt with in AA groups, if drug use was legalised then rehabilitation would improve, outlawing it only forces drug users too poor to pay for private rehabilitation into a corner.

One discussion is about not having to follow stupid laws. Which is judged by everyone and can be seen differently. You say your (I´m talking in general not to one specific person now) judgement is the best, someone else says something differently. Whos´s right? The one with most people on their side or should everyone just ignore the law they think is stupid?

When was the last time you voted on a law regarding marijuana? Never? Since using the drug is not a malicious or harmful crime, I've got no problem whatsoever with committing it.

And another discussion is if marijuana is "dangerous" or in any way effects people. A discussion I haven´t gotten myself into. So I´nowhere near to say if it should be legal or not. I used the word drugs for a reason. But if it doesn´t effect people why do people enjoy it so much? Simply because of the tast? Oh no. My mistake. It does effect you. Just no in a bad way for anyone. Never.

Why do you drink coffee when you're tired? For the taste, or to stay awake? Why do you take sleeping pills? For the taste, or to go to sleep? Why do you take painkillers? For the taste, or to relieve the pain?

And about anarchy: I personally think that people should be smart enough to live without laws. I would like to think that my personal decisions are mine, and that the government shouldn't be able to dictate what I do or don't do. I think Joe Schmo should be able to not kill anyone without it being written on paper that murder is bad. But here's the catch: people in general are not smart enough to be able to live without a governing body to set boundaries for them.

It's nice to know that when the chips are down, there are more chips on the shoulders of everyone who thinks that dictatorship is fine because the people that they've never met are too stupid to make their own decisions. I'm very comforted to know that you know me well enough to know that I, and the other members of my community, do not have the basic moral reasoning to refrain from murder, rape and torture.

Sure, sometimes I find myself going over the speed limit and I slow down. I don't pass a speed limit sign and say, "Oh, I could handle this MUCH faster...watch this kids!" and floor it.

Breaking the speed limit is not a victimless crime and neither is driving under the influence of drugs, but if Joe Normal wants to go home and take a toke, that's his business.

 

[Lou]

Breaking the speed limit is not a victimless crime and neither is driving under the influence of drugs, but if Joe Normal wants to go home and take a toke, that's his business.

But the article is about the woman smoking pot in her car with her kids while away from the house.

And I honestly believe that if pot did NOT impair people's judgement or could be regulated in a safe way like cigarettes it would be legal.
Sadly, it does impair people and thus there is the driving factor. Plus, because you can grow it in your backyard it can easily be laced with things. All you need is one stupid friend who wants to see what happens if you add Draino Crystals and BOOM dead people.

I really do understand that you think it should be legal and obviously you understand that there are limits to how "safe" it is if you know not to drive while smoking. But, not everyone does. A few hours of Court TV on a weeknight will show you just how many people drive around WHILE smoking pot. And until those people can be contained, I doubt they're gonna change any laws. As it is, we seem to have mother's who think the best way around the law is to do EXACTLY what people fear about pot in the first place. She should never have had it in her car with her underaged children putting herself, them and random passersby in danger.

 

[JCC]

But the article is about the woman smoking pot in her car with her kids while away from the house.

Yeah, but this topic has become about something entirely different.

And I honestly believe that if pot did NOT impair people's judgement or could be regulated in a safe way like cigarettes it would be legal.

"Hello, I'm alcohol and I'm legal."
There are a lot of reasons for marijuana being outlawed, but it's not to protect you.

Sadly, it does impair people and thus there is the driving factor. Plus, because you can grow it in your backyard it can easily be laced with things. All you need is one stupid friend who wants to see what happens if you add Draino Crystals and BOOM dead people.

So? You can put Drano Crystals in orange juice or in maple syrup, which is the dangerous substance that you should be careful of, the Drano Crystals or the orange juice?

I really do understand that you think it should be legal and obviously you understand that there are limits to how "safe" it is if you know not to drive while smoking. But, not everyone does. A few hours of Court TV on a weeknight will show you just how many people drive around WHILE smoking pot.

A lot of people do a lot of stupid things and hurt a lot of people, I don't think that because they make a mistake, it follows that I should be neutered just in case.

 

[randiann]

It's nice to know that when the chips are down, there are more chips on the shoulders of everyone who thinks that dictatorship is fine because the people that they've never met are too stupid to make their own decisions. I'm very comforted to know that you know me well enough to know that I, and the other members of my community, do not have the basic moral reasoning to refrain from murder, rape and torture.

Yes, because that's EXACTLY what I said. Thanks for twisting my words and making this into a personal attack on you. We all know that there are stupid people in this world. There are people who need to be told what is acceptable and what is unacceptable. While individual people can usually discern what is right and what is wrong, people as a whole need guidance, plain and simple.

I think you just want to argue for the sake of arguing, not to actually debate the topic. Yes, we all know that you think pot should be legal. That doesn't make it any less dangerous than any other drug, and it doesn't make it right for a mother to smoke it with her young teens whether they are at home or in public. I had a so called "cool mom" when I was in my teens. Believe me, it's not all that great. But hey, maybe that's cause I wasn't stoned every night....

 

[Joyce Summers]

Okay this is a question I have of general curiosity and is not an attack on anyone's opinions either way, I'm just really curious as to the answer. Some of you here have stated that when your children, hypothetical or otherwise, are a certain age and want to smoke pot or whatever, you wouldn't be at all bothered; you would just let them get on with it. I have to admit that my mentality is completely I would go berserk/ape/"phrase of your choice", so I really can't understand those of you who would not be bothered if your child did. So out of general curiosity from a "go-ape view" I'd really like to hear the reasoning behind the other viewpoint/perception.

 

[Lou]

Well, I can tell you MY reasoning.
But, I can't speak for anyone else.

I see pot as about the same thing as alcohol. I have plenty of friends who use it once or twice a year, at their home, totally safe and just smoke it to calm down or hang out.

Honestly, it would depend on the situation. When I was younger I knew plenty of people who did what I would easily call "abusing" pot. Who were high all the time, day or night, work or play....that I wouldn't be okay with. Even if they weren't driving. Mainly because it's never good to be messed up all the time.

On the other hand, if my grown child admitted to the occasional smoke I wouldn't flip out just based on the fact that I don't think it's dangerous when used in a responsible manner. It's not the type drug where if you smoke a joint you could become addicted and need rehab.

I think I could deal. I'm not saying I'd high five them, there would be some discussion, but I wouldn't freak out and scream or call the rehab place or the cops. Which is saying a lot FOR pot just because I'm very anti-drug.
My main concern would honestly be why they feel they need to escape from reality. But, if we were really talking once or twice a year, I think I could understand that.

But that is just me.

 

[Kali]

So out of general curiosity from a "go-ape view" I'd really like to hear the reasoning behind the other viewpoint/perception.

I've had a long debate with another member about this this morning.

My children are 3 years apart (currently 19 months and 4 and a half). The older one, the boy, has Asperger's Syndrome, so may not have exposure to those kinds of social networks as early on; the girl is going to be a precocious little Miss Feisty like her mother. So firstly, I will have to deal with them on a case by case basis, as I think they will need to have 'the talk' at different times - with her, I suspect earlier in her teenage years because of her sociability and the fact she has an older sibling, but still probably not at the same sitting.

My view is this. As with alcohol (and sex, although not planning on having a demo!) I feel it is prudent, based on an astute awareness of the people they will be associating with, to have the following conversation.

'Hey, at some stage, with the places you go and the people you meet, it is possible you will be exposed to hash or weed. IF, and it's entirely up to you, IF you feel you might like to try some, please come to me first, so we can discuss it rationally and you and I both know you are aware of the pro's and con's.'

Some time later....

'So you think you are likely to try? If you feel you want to, let's sit down and do it for your first time together, so I can explain what is happening physiologically and discuss how you feel, in a safe environment. That way, if you get any weird feelings I can talk you through it, so you are armed with the knowledge that wherever you are, if you green out it's transient: you can regain control, it's all about mindset. Then you can take the benefit of this experience wherever you go, and you can remember that whatever situation you are in, you need to be conscious of your safety and your own limitations based on the effects you have felt, and you can use your OWN JUDGEMENT on whether or not you feel SAFE enough to take part in it there, or whether or not it is even for you, and not feel peer pressure is getting to you.'

That seems to me to be a responsible attitude. I'm not forcing it, just accepting that it is quite likely they will try in this locale and with the culture of the city (helloooo, Trip-Hop anyone?) I am also not suggesting they sit down and smoke at home every night with me. Firstly, because I have far loftier ambitions for them than to get caned every night when they should be studying to go to Oxnard. I need to retain my position of authority as a parent, and I can't do that over a bucket bong on the dinner table. Secondly, because it is something they need to experience with their friends, in their environments. It's part of growing up here. The control freak that I am just needs to know they are armed with the self awareness they need to keep them safe, and that their first experience was educational and not peer pressure, whilst still allowing them the freedom to go on and experience things at their own pace, if they want to.

 

[JCC]

Yes, because that's EXACTLY what I said. Thanks for twisting my words and making this into a personal attack on you. We all know that there are stupid people in this world. There are people who need to be told what is acceptable and what is unacceptable. While individual people can usually discern what is right and what is wrong, people as a whole need guidance, plain and simple.

I don't think that they need guidance and your only reason why they do need guidance is stating that 'they need guidance'. Convince me, why do people need guidance, or are we so used to having guidance forced on to us that we can't ask the question of what things would be like if communities were autonomous?

I think you just want to argue for the sake of arguing, not to actually debate the topic. Yes, we all know that you think pot should be legal. That doesn't make it any less dangerous than any other drug, and it doesn't make it right for a mother to smoke it with her young teens whether they are at home or in public. I had a so called "cool mom" when I was in my teens. Believe me, it's not all that great. But hey, maybe that's cause I wasn't stoned every night....

Will you stop? Seriously, someone puts forward an opinion, and you say 'nuh-uh, you're wrong because [THIS]', not explaining or convincing or justifying your opinion, just flaunting it as fact and then expecting everyone else to step back and say "Woah, that's where I've been going wrong!". It's not going to work and honestly, it's a little insulting.

 

[Lou]

Okay, we should get back to the topic of the actual Mom at hand or there is no point to the thread.

 

[JCC]

Okay, the mom is a dumbass for drug driving, especially for dragging her kids into the affair, no argument there.

 

[randiann]

Ok, I'm gonna reply once more and then I'm stepping away, because this is really getting out of hand.

My "wanting to argue" statement stems from how you have replied to pretty much everyone in this thread. You are coming off as hostile, and not just in those replies to me. You obviously have strong feelings about pot, and perhaps you need to feel the need to defend it. I'm not sure. But if you reread what you have posted, it comes off as wanting to argue.

To simplify (and explain). All societies have rules. This allows them to function. People living within these societies need these rules in order to solve grieviances, establish order, etc. These rules are called laws. In large societies like ours, we sometimes get silly laws. That doesn't mean all laws are stupid and should be abandoned, nor does it mean you should teach your children to break the law "just because it's unfair/stupid/doesn't apply". That's my personal opinion. If you can name one society of a substantial amount of people that was ever able to function without laws, I'll recant my opinion. But all this boils down to is that people need guidance and they need a system to create order. We aren't advanced enough to live totally independant of a governing body because people are constantly stepping on the toes of others, whether they mean to or not. Thus we have established laws and regulations in order to prevent this from happening, and for dealing with it when it does happen. Believe me, I wish we didn't need it.

We all pretty much agree then that the mom has poor judgement. You yourself state that driving while smoking should be regulated. This is totally different from the "pot should be legal" debate. Really, I don't care if pot's legal or not. It's not going to affect me much one way or the other. But I don't want to smell it and I don't want to be around it, just like I don't want to have to deal with cigarette smoke either. And I don't want my kid around it. He'll probably experiment when he's older, sure, but that doesn't mean I will encourage him to or allow it in my house just so I can supervise him. Same with alcohol. I don't want my teen to be exposed to it if I can help it, and I don't think it's right to allow him to be around drugs of any kind. I personally refuse to take a laissez-faire stance when it comes to drugs and my child. And that includes alcohol and tobacco.

 

[Harm]

DUDE! Who smokes pot with their MOM? :wtf:
It's the kid's fault for not having lives.

'Nuff said.

 

[JCC]

Ok, I'm gonna reply once more and then I'm stepping away, because this is really getting out of hand.

My "wanting to argue" statement stems from how you have replied to pretty much everyone in this thread. You are coming off as hostile, and not just in those replies to me. You obviously have strong feelings about pot, and perhaps you need to feel the need to defend it. I'm not sure. But if you reread what you have posted, it comes off as wanting to argue.

I'm not, it's just that I'd rather get a chance to discuss things with you than feel like you're dismissing me off-hand. Debate is a wonderful thing and there's no better way to learn about yourself or others, so chill out and give me an ideological smackdown, it's even better than pot.

To simplify (and explain). All societies have rules. This allows them to function. People living within these societies need these rules in order to solve grieviances, establish order, etc. These rules are called laws. In large societies like ours, we sometimes get silly laws. That doesn't mean all laws are stupid and should be abandoned, nor does it mean you should teach your children to break the law "just because it's unfair/stupid/doesn't apply".

When a nation is spread over such a colossal space that the laws that we have to obey are laws that we've never had a say in, it's a part of the problem that comes with a large state (apart from the obvious ones of external governments having their own agenda whereas a community just wants to run its community as peacefully and efficiently as it can). To a statist, it probably does seem inconsiderate or dangerous to break the laws that you don't agree with, but to me, civil disobedience is a way of saying 'these laws are pointless, these laws infringe upon my life and that's not a right of yours'.

That's my personal opinion. If you can name one society of a substantial amount of people that was ever able to function without laws, I'll recant my opinion. But all this boils down to is that people need guidance and they need a system to create order. We aren't advanced enough to live totally independant of a governing body

Catalonia was an anarchist collective of 2 million people that was incredibly successful and very peaceful, with an enormous increase in productivity and a literacy level that rose from 2% to 100%. Governing bodies don't really do much for us, honestly.

We all pretty much agree then that the mom has poor judgement. You yourself state that driving while smoking should be regulated. This is totally different from the "pot should be legal" debate. Really, I don't care if pot's legal or not. It's not going to affect me much one way or the other. But I don't want to smell it and I don't want to be around it, just like I don't want to have to deal with cigarette smoke either. And I don't want my kid around it. He'll probably experiment when he's older, sure, but that doesn't mean I will encourage him to or allow it in my house just so I can supervise him. Same with alcohol. I don't want my teen to be exposed to it if I can help it, and I don't think it's right to allow him to be around drugs of any kind. I personally refuse to take a laissez-faire stance when it comes to drugs and my child. And that includes alcohol and tobacco.

Horses for courses, I suppose, parent as you feel fit, but I would say that it's incredibly likely that your child will at some point come across the opportunity to take drugs of some kind and I won't pretend that street drugs are a safe thing to get into, they're often laced with other things or very poor quality, not to mention that no teenager should have to go and meet some shady street dealer. I know people who grow pot in their back gardens and let their kids have it for parties.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Debate is a wonderful thing

You do realize that this is not a debate insofar as simply stating views, yes? Debate is a wonderful thing.. repeating ones ideas and beliefs over and over again does not make a debate but prolix.

 

[Lou]

JCC:
You must try and understand one of the positions that the parents (and potential parents) are taking in this thread. There are many studies out telling parents all sorts of things of what chemicals in general do to a child's mind. Our own doctor gave us literature on why we might not want to put my son on ADD medicine because of the effects of drugs on a growing mind. Children's minds are much different than adults.
There are doctors claiming that simple vaccinations can damage our children. The research on Medical Marijuana, so far, can't even say that's safe for a child's mind.
Personally, whether it was legal or not for us all to grow and smoke, I'm not sure I would be hopping up and down to grow plants for my children to smoke under any circumstances short of them dying anyway.

Also, let's assume your stance is what this mother was thinking.

'these laws are pointless, these laws infringe upon my life and that's not a right of yours'.

What has she done exactly to change anything? Now she's in jail and soon to probably be in court. And what does she have to show for herself? Beyond the simple drug possession she's facing charges of child endangerment, contributing to the delinquency of a minor and very easily the jury or judge will see she was likely to be driving under the influence.
Her actions don't really show her in a glowing light as a mature adult who should be listened to and opinion to be considered.
If anything, she's going to be put in the category of "See what pot can do to your head? It makes you insane and stupid" and not just because of the drug possession but because of the other things she did while smoking it.

Assuming she gets convicted (and maybe even if she's not) she's now no longer a person that even people who are for the legalization would listen to as a voice of reason.

In fact, she is the reason I think the laws should BE in place or that if it gets legalized it falls under the same rules as alcohol. In any of my happy imaginary worlds, what she did should have consequences whether pot is legal or not.
What about the person that was driving by when she decided to let her 14 year old practice driving while high?

Which I think is why laws are good. Sure, we're all fairly good at realizing "Fire bad, Tree pretty" It's the other areas in between that have an impact on others and the people that want to take those gray areas and ease them into the black and white ones that are the issue.

I'm not really saying your stance is a horrible stance to have. I get it on some level. But, once you get caught for breaking the law, no matter how stupid you think it is, you lose your voice for changing it later. If we assume this mother had not so much as a parking ticket before this, she's gone from law abiding mother of two to a danger to society with flawed ideas of right and wrong because of the things she did beyond the simple drug possession.

 

[JCC]

Catalonia HAS a government though. Parliment, taxation, even a police force. If it were a society that was truly independant of the need of rules, it wouldn't need any of these.

Yeah, I meant Civil War Catalonia, I should've clarified that, sorry.

Anyway, I think this topic is spent.

 

[Harley]

Yeah, I meant Civil War Catalonia, I should've clarified that, sorry.

Yeah so you'll have to ignore me please.
[br][/br]
Edit:
[br][/br]
This mother deserves to go to jail and to have her children taken away. She obviously isn't fit to have them.
It's amazing the way people have "Oh-this-law-applies-to-me-too?" syndrome.

My opinion on whether or not smoking pot with your kids is ok - I say it's not. I don't think pot smoking is ok period. There are too many medical problems.

A number of studies have shown an association between chronic marijuana use and increased rates of anxiety, depression, suicidal ideation, and schizophrenia

Source.

Plus, some people who use it are just idiots. I watched my ex-boyfriends brother try to jump over a bonfire. Hello? The laws are there to keep as many people from killing themselves or other people as possible.

And whoever it was that asked the "have you voted on a marijuana law lately" question; I did this last election. It's now legal in Michigan (for "medical purposes", of course). My dad's job is now harder and people are going to die more.

If I'd never taken history class, I'd be in line to push for prohibition too. What do you honestly need alcohol for? But that's an entire other discussion.