Question What Changed Buffy's Mind?

[TheAnnointedOne]

In Lie My Parents Told Me Giles and Buffy talk about the fact that in The Gift Buffy refused to consider letting Dawn die. Giles then says:

"But things are different now, aren't they? After what you've been through, faced with the same choice now, you'd let her die."

Buffy then says, "If I had to. To save the world. Yes."

What do you think about this exchange? Buffy was so adamant in The Gift that Dawn was not to be sacrificed at any cost. She said, "remember, the ritual starts; we all die. And I'll kill anyone who comes near Dawn."

Why do you think facing the "same choice now" she takes a different stance? In both situations there is the threat to end the world.

What does Giles mean by "after what you've been through?" Does he mean after the whole process of dying/being brought back into a living-hell? Is he saying because of this Buffy would think twice about saving the sister she died for two years ago?
But Buffy says that she would only sacrifice Dawn "to save the world." But she refused to do this in The Gift (before she knew how she could avoid it) So, what changed?

Would be good to hear your thoughts!

🙂

 

[Buffy Summers]

This is odd to me because it seems like she should have been closer to Dawn at the time of Lies. At the same time, though, I think she saw Dawn as more mature and so maybe she gave her enough credit at this point to allow her to give her life to save the world.

Though the cynic in me wants to say it was just her becoming colder and more willing to do whatever it takes. More like the Buffy from The Wish per se.

 

[Gum Gnome33]

Great question. This is something that never made any sense to me either. Honestly, (and I hate to talk/think like this as it takes me out of the show), I think it's something that was never really thought through or earned by the writers; it had a clear purpose which was directly linked toward a justification of what was currently happening to Spike, and trying to get us to draw a parallel which quite obviously wasn't there, anddidn't fit in with Buffy's character.
But, to play along and try to come up with some alternate, less cynical explanations:

Perhaps, after Buffy's experience in heaven, her perception of Dawn's death leading her to the place where she herself found peace made the idea of it not so harrowing, especially when the end of the world came as the alternative. Of course this is a bit of a stretch though because we could argue that Buffy no longer fears death for herself or for any of her loved ones, (save the fanged kind), because she now has insight as to where they'll end up. That would most likely affect her in fights, as a leader, and change her attitude toward apocalypses in general. We didn't see any of that.

Ok, this requires a big leap in logic but maybe Buffy, on some level, was thinking about how Willow had the power to bring her back and could do the same for Dawn? It's sort of insulting to her intelligence and development as a character to think of it that way, but I'm really digging here.

 

[Buffy Summers]

My question is: would Dawn, who is not technically a human being, go to heaven if killed? Maybe something for another thread.

 

[Gum Gnome33]

My question is: would Dawn, who is not technically a human being, go to heaven if killed? Maybe something for another thread.

Good question--either way, Buffy assuming that she would, would certainly make no sense at all. So that theory's probably out.

Though the cynic in me wants to say it was just her becoming colder and more willing to do whatever it takes. More like the Buffy from The Wish per se.

This is a real possibility...

 

[sk]

This discussion always makes me wonder.
Would Buffy actually act that much different if it had really come down to it?

My feeling is that Buffy would do whatever needed.
In season 5, if she didn't had that last option to sacrifice herself, would she really let the world go under?
I don't think so. She might not wanted think, or accept, the thought back then. But I still think she would save the world. No matter the cost.

Just as she in season 7 would still sacrifice herself to protect Dawn.

The change might be that she was prepared to accept the possibility in season 7 but I don't really think her final actions would be that much different.

/SK

 

[sisterofmercy]

I think part of it was her doing whatever needed to be done and she couldn't afford to let emotions get in the way of winning the war. She had to be a general and that involves focusing on the end goal more than anything. However, after going through the process of death and being at peace, it obviously had an impact on her (hence why she was depressed in S6) so she'd be more inclined to allow Dawn to die as at least then she'd be at rest and away from the danger/fight/death of others around her.

 

[white avenger]

I always just assumed that at least part of Buffy's determination to protect Dawn, no matter what, was due to the monks including it in the original spell. As time went by and Glory was no longer a threat, the spell weakened, allowing Buffy to see the situation in a more logical sense, realizing that no matter how much you might love someone, there comes a point when, to borrow a phrase from Star Trek, the need of the many outweigh the need of the one. Ironically, she wound up having to make basically the same decision at the end of Season 7, when she, however reluctantly, let Spike go in able to save the world.

 

[Starlight]

Maybe in the long run she realizes that if she had let Dawn die, she would not of put the others in danger by leaving Sunnydale unprotected. She would of been there to continue her duty as the Slayer.

 

[BuffyElevated]

Buffy saying that always bothered me. I felt like it showed how far apart she and Dawn had grown since she came back from Heaven in Season 6. I think in Season 5, Buffy was vulnerable about her family since her mother died, and she felt like since her mom was gone, Dawn was the closest thing she had to family, so she was more emotionally attached to the idea that she had to save her family more than Dawn herself, if that makes sense.

 

[ticonderouga]

From what I see, it seems that this had more to do with Buffy's specific state of mind at the end of season 5 then an over all change in her attitude in season 7, after all we have seen that Buffy is able to sacrifice even people that she cares about for the greater good, prior to season 5. By the time we get to the Gift, Buffy is near the end of her rope, all that she has left is Dawn and the Scoobies. She lost her mother, she lost Riley and then Dawn is kidnapped and Buffy sees no way to win. This is why she goes catatonic, and the only way that willow is able to bring her out of that is to convince Buffy that it is not too late to save Dawn. So I think that the only thing she was holding onto at that point was the idea that she could save Dawn, yet one of the first things Giles tells her after Buffy recovers is that she may in fact have to kill her sister. I think even a few weeks earlier, and Buffy might very well have sacrificed Dawn if that was the only way to save the world(though I think this would have haunted her deeply). But in that moment it was one decision she simply could not make. By the time we get to Giles' speech in season 7, Buffy is back to the confident Slayer and leader who can make that decision.