What Did Buffy Do Wrong?

[caritas08]

While it is no secret that I'm not too keen on Riley's character, the thing that bugs me the most about him is I don't understand what Buffy could have done to please him.

She seems very devoted to him in Season 4 (to the point that she alienates her friends and nearly gets killed joining the Initiative). She is honest with him about Angel. I really don't see what more she could have done for him as a girlfriend in Season 4.

Then in Season 5, everyone from Riley to Xander to Buffy herself blames her for being "closed off" and "shutting Riley out". I really don't see it. What I see is a 20 year old who has a very sick mother and is trying to keep it together for her mom and her little sister. She doesn't tell him right away when her mom gets rushed to the hospital but when something like that happens your first thought isn't always about the people who aren't on the hospital bed. Most of the time, she confides in Riley exactly what is going on and puts his needs ahead of Willow's, Xander's and Giles.

Now the argument is made by many (including Riley himself) that Buffy "doesn't love him." Well her actions prove different. She may not be all doe eyed high school smitten (which I guess is what he wants?) but her actions and behavior towards him shows that she deeply cares for him from "The I in Team" to "Out of My Mind" to the opening scenes of "Into the Woods".

I'm not even complaining about the old lady he yelled at in "I in Team" or his desire modification that nearly gave him a heart attack in "Out of My Mind" or his cheating on Buffy with vamp streetwalkers in "Into the Woods" because those are part of what I don't like about his character.

I just want to know what it's gonna take to please this man? How was Buffy a poor girlfriend?

 

[zobothehobo]

That is exactly what I think. I don't understand. I just don't see how it's her fault at all. She's a 20 year old who's terrified of losing her mother and doesn't have time to think about making her boyfriend feel loved. She does so much for him in season 4, when she doesn't have family issues holding her back... That should be enough for him to keep him around through this rough time for her. And he should want to be there for her, not be constantly thinking "why is she not here for me?" Especially since the answer's real simple to me: Her mother is freaking got brain cancer! I just don't get what more she could have possibly done.

 

[Moscow Watcher]

To me it's all about outside circumstances. Riley's journey has ended as soon as The Intitative arc was over. He has to be written out of the show. Preferably - under dramatic circumstances.

 

[Taake]

To me it's all about outside circumstances. Riley's journey has ended as soon as The Intitative arc was over. He has to be written out of the show. Preferably - under dramatic circumstances.

I agree.

When I watch it (though I now adore Riley) I don't really see what the problem is. It is clearly just fabricated for the need of having him written out of the show at that point and under scrutiny kind of makes Riley look a bit ridiculous being so needy at such a point in his girlfriend's life.

 

[Kean]

WILLOW: Thanks for having me over, Buffy.
Especially on a school night and ll.

BUFFY: Hey, no problem. Sorry about your fish.

WILLOW: It's okay, we hadn't really had time to bond yet.
I just got them for Hanukkah. Although, for the first
time, I'm glad my parents didn't let me have a puppy.

BUFFY; It's so weird"¦ Every time something like that
happens my first instinct is to run to tell Angel.
​

That's what Riley needed from Buffy; to be in her thoughts. To be someone she relied on for support. Someone she wanted around when times got tough. Someone she could find solace in. Riley needed to be let in by Buffy. Instead of being an after thought or a hindrane or work.

There is absolutely nothing Buffy could have done about that simply because it wasn't in her to do it. She didn't feel the same way about Riley as he felt about her. She didn't treat him poorly on purpose, or even at all. Buffy gave as much to Riley as she could.

 

[Chosen Enemy]

I just think they're not the best match. They weren't the right people for each other. Buffy didn't have things Riley needed, and Riley didn't have things that Buffy needed. It's not something Buffy did or didn't do, it's who she isn't and who she is, what she is. She clearly tried making it work. Maybe a little less than what Riley really needed from her. But they're in different worlds (not coming from different worlds, just live in different worlds). She wasn't there with him because she was in a different world from what he was in. I think that was the problem. They couldn't admit that something wasn't working there, so they tried forcingly to make it work. They don't need to change for each other, no one has to change for another person, in my opinion. And he wanted her to be something he wanted her to be.

 

[ticonderouga]

Riley's problem isn't that Buffy doesn't love him, its that she doesn't need him. In season 5 Riley has essentially given up his whole life mostly to be with Buffy, and Buffy takes him for granted without ever relying on him for anything. Yes, Buffy is a 20 year old girl struggling with a sick mother, and a sister who has to be protected from something that Buffy is unable to fight, but every time Riley even tries to be there for her she slaps him away. The best example of this is when Joyce is in the hospital, instead of letting Riley comfort her, she sends him to get Dawn. When she's wounded in Fool For Love, she insists that Riley take the group patrolling, even though he has proven that he can handle patrolling on his own. Every time that Riley tries to help her in any way, Buffy will undermine it in some way, though its clearly not her intention it is the net result of how she treats him in season 5. At one point, Buffy mentions that she was never their for Riley, but that's not really true, the problem was that she never let Riley be there for her. In Buffy's mind Riley was a sidekick, and Riley simply wasn't cut out to for that role.

 

[caritas08]

Okay, so most of the comments seem to indicate that Buffy and Riley just need to break up and are not right for each other....

Why the blame on Buffy then? Buffy seems to take all responsibility and blame after Riley leaves and even slightly before. Breakups happen. Riley, Xander and Buffy herself seem to put all the guilt solely on her shoulders. I just think Buffy holds an unnecessary guilt over this relationship, even though she treated Riley a lot better than a lot of Buffyverse characters treat their significant others.

 

[Kean]

Okay, so most of the comments seem to indicate that Buffy and Riley just need to break up and are not right for each other....

Why the blame on Buffy then? Buffy seems to take all responsibility and blame after Riley leaves and even slightly before. Breakups happen. Riley, Xander and Buffy herself seem to put all the guilt solely on her shoulders. I just think Buffy holds an unnecessary guilt over this relationship, even though she treated Riley a lot better than a lot of Buffyverse characters treat their significant others.

Because Buffy was the least active one in the relationship in terms of reaching out to Riley. Several times he will reach out to her emotionally, he'll tell her he loves her and she will not say anything.

While Riley was trying despartely to make them work, albeit sometimes foolishly, Buffy never seemed as invested in it like that. In fact, Buffy was so out of the loop in her own relationship she had no idea it wasn't working.

I think a lot of people's opinions of Buffy and Riley are in hindsight. So we can all say they just didn't fit each other. But if you look at them in real time, it looks like Riley is making all the effort.

 

[The Unspoken]

What I see is a 20 year old who has a very sick mother and is trying to keep it together for her mom and her little sister. She doesn't tell him right away when her mom gets rushed to the hospital but when something like that happens your first thought isn't always about the people who aren't on the hospital bed.

She didn't tell him at all, he found it out from Spike, who Buffy did see fit to tell. And shouldn't the magnitude of the problem (sick mom) be even more of an argument for Buffy to confide in Riley rather than the opposite?

Anyway, I don't recall anyone blaming Buffy. In fact:

BUFFY: Well, I have heard enough. (angrily) I will not take the blame for this. (Starts to walk away.)
RILEY: I'm not asking you to. (Grabs her arm yet again)

Criticizing someone's behavior is different from blaming them. Now, execution counts for everything, but one of the themes of season 5 was that Buffy was growing more and more emotionally closed off and I think the writers were trying to portray that this took its toll on the Briley relationship as well, even prior to Joyce's illness.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

But if you look at them in real time, it looks like Riley is making all the effort.

He was the rebound guy, that is all. That's the one bit where Xander was right. She treated him like an accessory rather than being her blood and air.

---------- Post added at 11:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:25 AM ----------

he found it out from Spike, who Buffy did see fit to tell. And shouldn't the magnitude of the problem (sick mom) be even more of an argument for Buffy to confide in Riley rather than the opposite?

Exactly! You will tell your "sworn enemy" rather than your lover? And there were numerous other occasions.. we cant forget when Buffy told Riley that she was going to MARRY Spike. Granted, she later said it was a joke, but that thought was still in his mind.

 

[Tome]

Each time Riley tried to help Buffy with something she hastily shut him down. I couldn't help but feel bad for him each time he was left standing there feeling useless. I really felt for Buffy during S5(I think it was the most emotional season), but not being able to help someone we care about is freaking horrible.

I also always thought the biggest problem between Buffy and Riley was that every time there was something wrong, they just didn't tell each other. So the things just kept on stacking up over time, and I think that's why it got to the point they reached in 'Into The Woods'. Riley should have told Buffy about his feelings way before, and Buffy should have opened up to him about what was going on in her head too. If she just couldn't, then I think she just wasn't gonna be able to trust Riley ever enough.

In 'Into The Woods' though, they finally let some things out(mostly Riley though). The scene in the training room was great. I like how Riley is finally honest with her and just bluntly tell her what he feels. Sure Buffy tell him that maybe it's his problem, that he expect things that just doesn't exist. But 'we' have seen Buffy throughout(as in she rarely open to people), so i'd have to side with Riley on this part. I also found it intriguing when he ask her to hit him and she just go by with that look on her face. Is she showing that he's not worth it(one of the few scenes in BtVS where Buffy seems to have a complex of superiority)? Or she just held back because she didn't wanna hurt him?

Anyway, I don't think Buffy did much wrong aside from not letting Riley in like she did with Angel. But as Kean said, it just wasn't the same for her with Riley. I don't think she loved him like he loved her.

 

[caritas08]

She didn't tell him at all, he found it out from Spike, who Buffy did see fit to tell. And shouldn't the magnitude of the problem (sick mom) be even more of an argument for Buffy to confide in Riley rather than the opposite?

Anyway, I don't recall anyone blaming Buffy. In fact:


Criticizing someone's behavior is different from blaming them. Now, execution counts for everything, but one of the themes of season 5 was that Buffy was growing more and more emotionally closed off and I think the writers were trying to portray that this took its toll on the Briley relationship as well, even prior to Joyce's illness.

Pretty much the whole ending scene in Into the Woods is him justifying the fact that he basically cheated on her (sneaking out of bed with her on a night she got a sitter for Dawn to devote herself completely to him) because of her shutting him out and then giving her an ultimatum. And it's not like she waited days to tell him about her mom. She was still at the hospital when he got there.

I think when a person is going through something traumatic (especially if it involves taking care of dying family) they should not have the burden of worrying if their insecure boyfriend feels needed enough. She did need him to help take care of Dawn and the Scoobies and constantly tells him "thank you" and talks about how he's the "god of all boyfriends". Riley shut out Buffy and ignored her feelings and concerns many times "The I in Team" "Out of My Mind" and Buffy didn't throw in the towel and give up on him.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

She did need him to help take care of Dawn and the Scoobies

So.. she just needed a helper then.. a babysitter not a boyfriend.

Buffy didn't throw in the towel and give up on him.

Because she never really gave IN to him.. she really had nothing to give up on.

 

[Taake]

She didn't tell him at all, he found it out from Spike, who Buffy did see fit to tell. And shouldn't the magnitude of the problem (sick mom) be even more of an argument for Buffy to confide in Riley rather than the opposite?

But that was because Spike was just there, it wasn't as if she actively sought him out to confide in him instead...

And to me at least, when I re-watch, I think Buffy does try. Like when she has a romantic night with Riley they first thing she does when she takes a breath from worrying about her mom and Dawn. So what if she doesn't cry to him? Not everyone has a need to do that around others, especially not someone who thinks of themselves as the 'strong' one.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

But that was because Spike was just there, it wasn't as if she actively sought him out to confide in him instead...

You and I know that because we are on the fourth wall looking over.. how would Riley know this? Buffy couldn't really say "Spike had shown up with a shotgun ready to kill me but we kinda bonded and the smell of peroxide is hot so maybe we should take a break for a bit" because that is where Riley started to be pushed from the picture.

 

[Taake]

You and I know that because we are on the fourth wall looking over.. how would Riley know this? Buffy couldn't really say "Spike had shown up with a shotgun ready to kill me but we kinda bonded and the smell of peroxide is hot so maybe we should take a break for a bit" because that is where Riley started to be pushed from the picture.

Well yes, but my response was more due to the "who Buffy did see fit to tell", than any concern for Riley's opinion here. To me it implied fault in Buffy's behavior and I don't think there was any.

 

[The Unspoken]

But that was because Spike was just there, it wasn't as if she actively sought him out to confide in him instead...

But Riley doesn't have anyway of knowing that, so it's rather irrelevant when discussing Riley feeling Buffy is shutting him out. And picking up a phone and telling Riley she's taking her mother to the hospital would take like a minute and the fact that Buffy didn't bother to do that, not even when she was at the hospital, does say something about the state of their relationship.

 

[PassionBecoming]

WILLOW: Thanks for having me over, Buffy.
Especially on a school night and ll.

BUFFY: Hey, no problem. Sorry about your fish.

WILLOW: It's okay, we hadn't really had time to bond yet.
I just got them for Hanukkah. Although, for the first
time, I'm glad my parents didn't let me have a puppy.

BUFFY; It's so weird"¦ Every time something like that
happens my first instinct is to run to tell Angel.
​

That's what Riley needed from Buffy; to be in her thoughts. To be someone she relied on for support. Someone she wanted around when times got tough. Someone she could find solace in. Riley needed to be let in by Buffy. Instead of being an after thought or a hindrane or work.

There is absolutely nothing Buffy could have done about that simply because it wasn't in her to do it. She didn't feel the same way about Riley as he felt about her. She didn't treat him poorly on purpose, or even at all. Buffy gave as much to Riley as she could.

That's exactly it. I have posted about this in length elsewhere, but Riley wasn't looking for attention or being needy. He wanted to help and for Buffy to let him into her life a little. I mean, she freaking told Spike about her mom's surgery before her own boyfriend. (And that's just one example.)

Just speaking of their relationship, Buffy dropped the ball, but I don't think it was intentional. She just wasn't ready to give what needed to be given to make Riley stay. I do believe both are better off as friends.

 

[kittenpoker]

There is absolutely nothing Buffy could have done about that simply because it wasn't in her to do it. She didn't feel the same way about Riley as he felt about her. She didn't treat him poorly on purpose, or even at all. Buffy gave as much to Riley as she could.

i agree. and well said.