What do you think about Anita Sarkeesian...

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...and her whole feminist mission?

There is always a lot of controversy when it comes to the person + her topic.
Beware, some of this controversy stuff tends to be blown out of proportion.

Because she is looking into games and popculture (+the feminist background) its also kind of related with Joss / Buffy ("kind of")

 
...and her whole feminist mission?

There is always a lot of controversy when it comes to the person + her topic.
Beware, some of this controversy stuff tends to be blown out of proportion.

Because she is looking into games and popculture (+the feminist background) its also kind of related with Joss / Buffy ("kind of")


Thank you for sharing the link, I have never heard of her before but it was an interesting video, I had noticed how women are portrayed in games before but not really thought of it in racist terms.
 
She is probably one of the most hated people in the gaming community.

I agree. Thats what I meant with "controversy stuff tends to be blown out of proportion"

Being a gamer myself, well, some YouTube vidoes she did have some flaws. But overall I am ok with it. But other people, wow, they are relentless when it comes to that topic. Anita made a random mistake = shitstorm! Like end of the world shitstorm. 😉
 
I think she's a manipulative idiot, liar, and perpetual victim that doesn't even play video games. Actual quote: "I'm not a fan of video games. I actually had to learn a lot about video games in the process of making this video." Her videos are highly biased and she sometimes comes off like a compulsive liar. There has been multiple times when she says something like, "...and then the game forces you to kill the unwitting female," when in reality, it's entirely your choice in the game. She seems to be the type of person that thinks that playing Grand Theft Auto is going to turn you into a gangster who likes to steal cars, shoot people, and most importantly, rape and stab prostitutes. She literally looks at every single piece of art through her narrow "feminist" lens and then is surprised when she magically finds evidence of racism and sexism EVERYWHERE. Another actual quote: "Everything is sexist, everything is racist, everything is homophobic, and you have to point it all out."

I love video games, but I wouldn't call myself a gamer, or an avid fan. I'm not saying that there are absolutely zero problems in the gaming industry, but she uses her influence to make people think that there is a deep-rooted sexism problem inherent in every single video game and video game developer, and therefore anyone who plays and enjoys them are misogynist pigs.

There are countless videos on YouTube refuting every word she's ever said, but I found a few videos a second ago that seem to sum up a few big counter-arguments pretty well.
(20 min)
(6 min)
 
@The Ferg
thx for bringing up the main controversy stuff. Now everybody could watch the whole spectrum.
To me it "seems" a bit to harsh (and sometimes blown out of proportion), when people are pointing out Anitas mistakes, but maybe I am just to forgiving...and she is just highly manipulative...

Anyway, its a very hot topic. 😉
 
I really don't think it's too harsh. She goes out of her way to blame everyone who's tangentially related to the video games industry for rampant, systemic sexism and racism.
That wouldn't necessarily be noteworthy, but the problem is that she has become huge! Everyone knows who she is. Everyone hears her opinions. She has been propped up onto her victim pedestal to tell the world about all of her bulls****, when most of what she says is completely and utterly false. Going onto a show like Colbert and exclaiming to all the layman in the world that an entire art form has a sexism/racism/homophobia problem is an incredibly awful and manipulative thing to do. She loves the spotlight, and she will do and say anything to stay there.
 
Ok, maybe I'm exaggerating slightly, but the very core argument in her videos is usually highly flawed, and the evidence she uses to back it up tend to not be of the legitimate variety
 
P
Puffy
That sounds way more "fair" :)
I don't care enough about games to know that much about it, but I have seen some of her critiques of shows and movies and found them flawed, as in I don't think she actually watched them but read a summary in looking for something to raise a stink about and even wondered if she was willfully lying to do so because I don't see how someone who actually watched it could claim what she did about the story. She also aggravates me when she makes statements of what is allowed or shall be done as if she were the Pope (Mome?) of feminism and/or women, but I quickly put her in my "ignore" column and ignored (just to be clear, if she made a lot of those statements as this is what she believes and invites others to boycott based on those beliefs then I wouldn't find it anywhere as annoying, even if I completely disagreed with her). I'd have forgotten her have I not met so many lovers and haters of her, but strong emotions regarding her (good or bad) tends to make me distrust either their defenses of her or their accusations.

Here's a feminist I'm a fan of (not to be mistaken for agreeing with every single thing she says) who had her own criticisms of Anita that sound reasonable to me...but then I've gotten where I trust her which means my mind vets her a lot less than say Anita:


She builds up to it for the first 3 minutes before focusing on Anita. It's been several months, minimum, since I saw it all (I just gave the vid a "skim" this time), but I remember agreeing with both her sentiments and her reasoning at the time.
 
ILLYRIAN
ILLYRIAN
I had to laugh at that one her first statement I couldn't understand then she said I'm a feminist butt. Did she mean I'm a feminist, but .
If she wants people to act with an intelligent view, she ought to try it first.
@thrasherpix

thx for sharing. Sounds overall "fair". Also I am always interested listening to opinions like yours, because they are coming from some kind of a frontline out there. (I hope I am not saying it terrible wrong, but you are into this kind of topics, woman-groups, if I am not mixing stuff unintentionall). Because I am not a frontline guy. I am more a last seat row guy. Very convenient and nice perspective, but at the end I dont know Jack whats going on at the frontlines. 😉
 
I have to admit, I don't know who she is, I had to Google her to find out.... but as a woman who has herself worked in games retail in the past, as well as playing many many games over the years, I can tell you there is a problem within the gaming community as a whole in regards to sexism. Now, I've not played every game out there, so I admit this is a sweeping statement, but from my personal experience of playing and selling games (primarily to adult men and teenage boys), that I have always been seen as a lesser person. When asking for advice on games, they would suggest that maybe I didn't know as much as my male colleagues. On the brief experience I have with online gaming, a young man realised I was a woman in GTA Online and proceeded to harass me constantly, and then call me abusive names when I wouldn't just stand there and let him kill my character repeatedly (my character in the online game was also female).

What do I think about this woman? Not a whole lot of beans. What do I think of the industry as a whole? There are issues there, in both development, design, sales and gaming that need addressing. Will it ever happen? Not in my lifetime, but things are starting to improve. Female characters are improving. Female developers are becoming more mainstream. The bouncing enhanced chests of Dead or Alive are slowly becoming a thing the past, but it will take time for the medium of gaming to be fully 100% inclusive.

As for me, I have a massive amount of love for GTA5. I don't play it as a feminist (because technically that would be impossible!), I play it as a gamer and I think it's one of the smartest, most well-crafted and detailed games I've ever played in my life. I really enjoy it. Now, where did I park that stolen car? 😛
 
Now, I've not played every game out there, so I admit this is a sweeping statement, but from my personal experience of playing and selling games (primarily to adult men and teenage boys), that I have always been seen as a lesser person. When asking for advice on games, they would suggest that maybe I didn't know as much as my male colleagues. On the brief experience I have with online gaming, a young man realised I was a woman in GTA Online and proceeded to harass me constantly, and then call me abusive names when I wouldn't just stand there and let him kill my character repeatedly (my character in the online game was also female).

That sounds 100%realistic to me. While playing Magic (TCG) and chess (no more, by the way), to me it looks like women are a unicorn when it comes to topics like playing games and competing with other. 30 guys on a chess club, no women. 100 people magic tournament, 99 guys, 1 girl. Well, without judging it in any way, but with the normally exeptions (like you), it looks like a mans playground overall.

So I guess its nearly impossible, being a women (who plays) and taken seriously.
 
I have been an avid gamer all my life and I was following Anita way before she began making videos about sexism in video games (she used to talk about movies mostly). As a knowledgeable gamer, I can ascertain that most of what she says is true and I believe her *mission*, as you called it, is genuine and for the best. It is also hard not to feel for her when you see the hateful and misogynist bullshit she receives for daring to criticize a domain that once *belonged* to the DUDEEES! While I used to be more neutral in this argument, as it is true that she sometimes appear only to look for the negative facets of video games, the anti-Anita side pretty much lost all credibility for me over the years as while it is true that she tends to be biased (she got better on that now, giving positive examples of games/games features), her naysayers are often criticizing her on other grounds that usually reveal their own misogyny. More over, while Anita's haters may sometimes have decent arguments based on actual facts, they always argue for the sake of proving her wrong, unable to admit that the gaming industry AND gaming communities need a healthy dose of acceptance, respect, and open-mindedness. Indeed, Anita might not come out as the most likeable person, but she is bringing to light a major issue of sexism and misogyny in both the gaming industry and the gaming communities. In the case of the former, many other women have been able to (thanks to Anita being brave enough to take a stand and take all the shit and threats that come with it) tell their stories, and most of these stories demonstrate how difficult it can be for a female to work in the gaming industry. I have read and heard (I have a few friends in this industry) so many things on this topic that made me want to gag. As for the gaming communities, well, I am a man and have been in tons of them through my life, and what Anita condemns is very real. While it has gotten a bit better in the past few years because of the LARGE influx of female gamers, it is still very much a 'bros world' and the communities tend to bring about some of the worst aspects of masculinity.

Anyway, this was a longer post than what I first expected to write, but I believe some things had to be said as Anita is often maligned for reasons that are less important than the message her videos convey. The gaming industry and video games in general need to adapt to a wider, more varied audience. Personally, I do not understand the hatred and close-mindedness toward women who now enter the gaming sphere and who bring up constructive criticism. I know change always makes people piss their pants, but life IS change... As a long-time gamer, I believe our 'baby' will only benefit from new, progressive ideas. 🙂
 
Storm in a teacup anyone? She complains about stupid stuff that isn't there, given that all I know of her is based on the first two minutes or so of that really dumb video. She complain about non white pirates, how thick. It is natural to assume people who live near there are not white skinned. That sort of thinking is as intelligent as the Khlu Klux Klan or however the idiots spell it. The laughable thing is as Jesus was born in Bethlehem he would not have been born with a white skin. So the KKK going on about white supremacy and given the dimension of the red cross on the front of their tunic, that puts them as anti-Christ and nearly devil worshippers.
Do you blame the people who make the games or the people who buy the games? As far as I'm concerned it is the people who play the games.
So I doubt I could ever hate that Anita Sarkeesian mainly because she is thick.
If the type of character in those games is going to be change it is the player not the games producers who are going to need to start the process. But that Anita dipshit won't help she'll just make folk think she is an El Thicko!
 
Whether you like her or not (I had no idea who she was before this thread, and I haven't watch any of her other videos, so even I can't really comment on her specifically), but you can't deny that sexism and racism (and intersectionality) is a real problem in video games.

I'm not saying that there are absolutely zero problems in the gaming industry, but she uses her influence to make people think that there is a deep-rooted sexism problem inherent in every single video game and video game developer, and therefore anyone who plays and enjoys them are misogynist pigs.

I think she's right when it comes to the fact that there is a deep-rooted sexism problem in the video game industry (maybe not every single games, but many of them). But I agree with you that this doesn't mean that everyone that plays video games is a misogynist pig.

I'm a feminist, and I enjoy gaming. Yes, even the hypersexualized games like Bayonetta and the likes. I think it's just important to recognize the sexism and hypersexualization of females in video game, both for the characters, and also towards the female gamers. I'm an avid female gamer and this is one of the worst industry when it comes to real life sexism, which honestly bothers me a lot more than the in game sexism.

I think the industry as a whole would be much less problematic if the sexism didn't carry on to real life stuff, like what @Athena experienced playing GTA online. To be honest, I don't get offended playing a half naked female character with huge bazongas. But I get offended when I'm seen as a joke by other gamers because I'm a girl, or when I'm disrespected.

Again, I don't really have any comments to make on Anita Sarkeesian because I haven't seen any of her other stuff, but I think it's every gamers' responsibility to at least be conscious of the fact that sexism exist in the video game industry, and more importantly when it comes to real life interactions (harassing female players).
 
ILLYRIAN
ILLYRIAN
from comment below, tis awkward to talk about family friendly stuff when you don' t know what each family considers family friendly.
Runs out to get Bayonetta, just to see what it is like. You said you don't get offended playing a girlie with huge bazongas. Does that mean you've got or the character in the game has got, just asking.
 
Blaze
Blaze
I would answer this, but you know, family friendly board ;)
I'm wanting to respond to some of you, but I'm having trouble putting my thoughts into one concise post, but I think I nailed the down the broad stuff that I disagree with so here goes...

My biggest problem is exactly what ILLYRIAN said. She's making a problem out of nothing. It seems like a lot of people tend to think that there's some deep-rooted misogyny problem in gaming, but where's the evidence? Are we really suggesting that the majority of game creators and gamers are sexist? I'm totally in agreement that the industry should try to cater toward many demographics, but I don't think the problem is sexism. Until very recently, men were the target demographic for most games, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. I'm not gonna pretend like I've never had any encounters with sexism in a video game, but it has been very infrequent. I'm not a huge gamer, but I have definitely logged an embarrassing amount of time into a few games, and I can say with absolute certainty that there are more gamers who accept woman than not. Most of the time guys just react with shock, and then go on to enjoy the game like everyone else. Anita, and others like her, think there's a big problem, when in reality most gamers really don't give a s***. They just want to play games and have fun.

Secondly, I just have to say that there's nothing wrong with "sexualization" or "the male gaze" or "the male power fantasy." Feminists tend to use these buzzwords to denote something negative, but I don't think there's anything wrong with making a woman hot. For example, the new Lara Croft is awesome, but there was nothing wrong with her before. Her enormous breasts and sexuality were part of her character, and people (male and female alike) loved her regardless. At the end of the day, guys like to look at attractive women, and they shouldn't be looked down upon for that. And don't even get me started with people complaining about women only looking like scantily clad supermodels. Their male counterparts do the exact same thing. Everyone is exaggerated in video games.

Thirdly, Anita is just missing the point. I liked Athena's final paragraph a lot because she said that she loves a game, even though feminists would hate. Feminists are taking these thing way too seriously! No one goes to play GTA and thinks, "Hmm.. what should I do today? I think I'll knock out a few hookers!" They play GTA to have fun, vicariously break the law, and drop tanks from the sky. If that includes punching hookers it's usually to great comedic effect. Nothing will ever be good enough for these people. The well-known publisher Blizzard's (WoW) new game, Overwatch has gotten a lot of praise for having a huge selection of women to play as, but yet Anita just has to find a way to bitch about it because some of them are attractive. Give me a break.

I will grant you that, assuming Anita's motives are pure, the idea of more inclusivity in the gaming community will never be a bad thing. I think more women in positions of power and more cool female characters can only be a good thing. The problem comes when Anita will say and do anything to promote her ideology. And that's exactly what it is.. an ideology and worldview, and anything that seems to contradict it is "problematic" and should be changed. It has been shown in dozens of instances that she blatantly lies to people's faces. So even if she has a good message, it's hard to get behind when she acts the way she does. It doesn't help that every word out of her mouth is tinged with an air of superiority and pretension.

My final, and perhaps most annoying, problem with Anita is that she is addicted to playing the victim. So she got made fun of on the internet? Big deal. I'm not saying death threats are ever ok, but being a lightning rod for controversy means that shitty people are something you have to deal with. Running scared and acting like everyone's against you is not the answer. All of this culminates in her and her supporters living inside a little bubble where anyone who disagrees with them is labeled as mean or misogynistic. I mean for god's sake, how much of a coward do you have to be to disable the comments on YouTube? She's so afraid of conflict that she just decides to assume that all of her naysayers are simply naysaying because they hate women. That's awful, and it's also the exact reason why Clinton lost the presidency. Demonizing an entire group of people without listening to a single actual argument will only strengthen their resolve.

Anyway, I hope that was mildly to the point, and I'm really trying not to ruffle any feathers here. I just have some strong opinions about Sarkeesian and modern feminism (and the American left at large if we're being honest).
 
I've been playing video games since the late 80s, early 90s, and there is a lot of sexism, but no more than any other industry marketed at men. Most stupid points brought up about games could easily be said for movies, and the games industry is bigger than GTA and COD. These games don't represent the whole industry. But unfortunately because of a few idiots it's now easy for folk to dismiss any and all discussion of sexism in games.

At the end of the day, guys like to look at attractive women, and they shouldn't be looked down upon for that.

This is the exact reason why I felt so excluded about my (passionate) hobby outside of my bedroom. I knew my money was worth less, as it was not marketed to me. To be at an event where you're the only teenage girl while surrounded by adult men, just emphasised how alone I felt in that community.

I don't bother playing games online either. Obviously I love video games though, and know enough about how the industry works that I don't have a strong voice on it. There are problems, but tbh it's mostly to do with advertising. I've never understood the gendered marketing anyways. Sell to people, rather than a gender, and you'll make more money. Everyone's happy.
 
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