What Do You Think Is Overrated On BTVS/AtS?

[famicommander]

Angel was the obvious love interest, and, while orders of magnitude more enjoyable than Buffy Spike, Buffy Angel was just so obvious and tropey. Also, Angel refusing to help the love of his unlife in S1 and large parts of S2 and S3 just rub me the wrong way. When Xander is more into helping Buffy than Angel, there is a big problem.

Finally, Angel was designed to make the women viewers fall in love with him as shown by the casting directors description of the most gorgeous, beautiful man among men ever for the casting call. And, Boreanaz was hired because he gave several women watching his audition heart palpatations. That little gem is in a you tube interview the casting director gave. And I believe it is in the 'Casting Buffy' DVD Commentary as well.

So, I think Angel should have lived up to his casting hype and the Buffy Angel love story should have been a lot more subtle.

It's not a love story, it's a statutory rape story.

 

[hoponlilmama]

Angel was the obvious love interest, and, while orders of magnitude more enjoyable than Buffy Spike, Buffy Angel was just so obvious and tropey. Also, Angel refusing to help the love of his unlife in S1 and large parts of S2 and S3 just rub me the wrong way. When Xander is more into helping Buffy than Angel, there is a big problem.

Given the audience the show was geared to, I think it (Bangel) was inevitable. The writers wanted the drama, and it worked in their favour.
It's a bit Romeo & Juliet, star-crossed lovers, which that itself is in trope territory.

Finally, Angel was designed to make the women viewers fall in love with him as shown by the casting directors description of the most gorgeous, beautiful man among men ever for the casting call. And, Boreanaz was hired because he gave several women watching his audition heart palpatations. That little gem is in a you tube interview the casting director gave. And I believe it is in the 'Casting Buffy' DVD Commentary as well.

They certainly weren't going to cast someone unattractive. 😉
I believe DB was just 'discovered' out and about?

So, I think Angel should have lived up to his casting hype and the Buffy Angel love story should have been a lot more subtle.

So if their romance was more subtle, you wouldn't find him overrated?

 

[NoShip]

Given the audience the show was geared to, I think it (Bangel) was inevitable. The writers wanted the drama, and it worked in their favour.
It's a bit Romeo & Juliet, star-crossed lovers, which that itself is in trope territory.


They certainly weren't going to cast someone unattractive. 😉
I believe DB was just 'discovered' out and about?



So if their romance was more subtle, you wouldn't find him overrated?

I agree with your first and second comments. As to the third, I should have said normal instead of subtle. To me, Bangel is too much melodrama. It becomes a soap opera romance and I am not a fan of melodrama or soap opera romances.

This isn't fair, but, as I think more about your questions, my answers evolve.....

As to Boreanaz specifically, based on his acting ability (or lack thereof) I think he is totally over-rated in BTVS. Having said that, Boreanaz developed into a good, solid actor. Good & solid enough to carry his own show and then Bones and then Seal Team. I think Boreanaz has been an unemployed actor for all of 3 years out of the last 27 years!!! One hell of an acco.plishment for any actor.

I grew up just west of Hollywood, so, I have a good understanding of just how gorgeous actors have to be. But the casting requirements for Angel were really over the top. Shockingly, Boreanaz fulfilled them.

Just out of curiosity, do you think Boreanaz or Angel are not over-rated?

 

[Kendar]

Not ebv

As to Boreanaz specifically, based on his acting ability (or lack thereof) I think he is totally over-rated in BTVS. Having said that, Boreanaz developed into a good, solid actor. Good & solid enough to carry his own show and then Bones and then Seal Team. I think Boreanaz has been an unemployed actor for all of 3 years out of the last 27 years!!! One hell of an acco.plishment for any actor.

Not even that long. He was Angel from Spring 1997 - Spring 2004, Had two movies in 2005 (so probably filming fall 2004/spring 2005), Bones from Fall 2005 - Spring 2017, and Seal Team from Fall 2017 - Fall 2024 (series finale is this Sunday in fact).

Just taking his 4 big shows, he's been in 527 episodes since Spring 97, with at MOST a summer hiatus between seasons.

 

[hoponlilmama]

I agree with your first and second comments. As to the third, I should have said normal instead of subtle. To me, Bangel is too much melodrama. It becomes a soap opera romance and I am not a fan of melodrama or soap opera romances.

True, there's a bit of drama, but I refer back to my previous point of where series was geared to and the type of audience. It would be great if writers out there would break the mould and stop giving audiences the same things over and over, teen or otherwise.

The Bangel romance also serves a purpose, to show the audience how a vamp/human relationship is likely to not work/will face many difficulties. Because the realistic outcomes would be either: Angel Shanshu's and becomes human, Angel eventually turns Buffy (but gives her a soul), or they just ride out the relationship as is (with Angel's soul anchored permanently, of course!) with Buffy growing old and eventually dying.

That said...we have to remember Buffy realises that her life as a Slayer could be cut short, so she'd want to live in the moment. She might not care and just being with Angel is enough, not thinking of the future, merely thinking of the 'now'.

This isn't fair, but, as I think more about your questions, my answers evolve.....

As to Boreanaz specifically, based on his acting ability (or lack thereof) I think he is totally over-rated in BTVS. Having said that, Boreanaz developed into a good, solid actor. Good & solid enough to carry his own show and then Bones and then Seal Team. I think Boreanaz has been an unemployed actor for all of 3 years out of the last 27 years!!! One hell of an acco.plishment for any actor.

I think the general consensus there is DB's acting isn't great in the beginning - of which I also agree. He was very 'green', as the term goes. He did obviously get better and grow as an actor - look at his resume as proof.

I grew up just west of Hollywood, so, I have a good understanding of just how gorgeous actors have to be. But the casting requirements for Angel were really over the top. Shockingly, Boreanaz fulfilled them.

Just out of curiosity, do you think Boreanaz or Angel are not over-rated?

DB as an actor might be overrated, Angel the character, I don't know if he's overrated. I often see comments that he's dull, spends his time brooding and is a block of wood - breaking away from that somewhat and having some growth when he gets his own series.

I wonder where Angel (the character) ranks now in terms of popularity.

Not ebv

Not even that long. He was Angel from Spring 1997 - Spring 2004, Had two movies in 2005 (so probably filming fall 2004/spring 2005), Bones from Fall 2005 - Spring 2017, and Seal Team from Fall 2017 - Fall 2024 (series finale is this Sunday in fact).

Just taking his 4 big shows, he's been in 527 episodes since Spring 97, with at MOST a summer hiatus between seasons.

And he apparently is already trying to put together another television series!

 

[NotASlayer]

DB as an actor might be overrated, Angel the character, I don't know if he's overrated. I often see comments that he's dull, spends his time brooding and is a block of wood - breaking away from that somewhat and having some growth when he gets his own series.

I think Angel greatly benefited as a character by having his own series, making him more than Buffy's love interest. And we got to see him "dancing"! Okay, only in his imagination, but still! And his "singing"!

 

[hoponlilmama]

I think Angel greatly benefited as a character by having his own series, making him more than Buffy's love interest. And we got to see him "dancing"! Okay, only in his imagination, but still! And his "singing"!

Ha! 🤣

Mind you, it would've been great if they had expanded his character on the series, before he moved to AtS - I guess that was the point though, they'd have more of a chance to do that away from BTVS.

 

[NotASlayer]

Mind you, it would've been great if they had expanded his character on the series, before he moved to AtS - I guess that was the point though, they'd have more of a chance to do that away from BTVS.

Yes; the problem with him remaining on Buffy would he would always be Buffy's love interest/Buffy's ex-love interest.

The positive if he had remained is that Spuffy would not be a thing.

 

[hoponlilmama]

Yes; the problem with him remaining on Buffy would he would always be Buffy's love interest/Buffy's ex-love interest.

If he'd remained on the series, they'd really need to flesh out his character further, allow him to integrate more within the Scoobies, and eventually look for a way to anchor his soul.

The positive if he had remained is that Spuffy would not be a thing.

If only...

 

[NoShip]

DB as an actor might be overrated, Angel the character, I don't know if he's overrated. I often see comments that he's dull, spends his time brooding and is a block of wood - breaking away from that somewhat and having some growth when he gets his own series.

The "Dull, Brooding, Block of Wood" comments overwhelmingly come from Spuffies and Spike lovers. Apparently, Spike can't cpmpete until Angel is broken down.

 

[hoponlilmama]

The "Dull, Brooding, Block of Wood" comments overwhelmingly come from Spuffies and Spike lovers. Apparently, Spike can't cpmpete until Angel is broken down.

I figured it was coming from them, but wasn't 100% sure. Maybe there's people with no investment in any of the ships that do find him dull regardless?

If only poor Angel had only gone crazy in a basement for two weeks after getting his soul and then was back to normal..😉

 

[NotASlayer]

I figured it was coming from them, but wasn't 100% sure. Maybe there's people with no investment in any of the ships that do find him dull regardless?

If only poor Angel had only gone crazy in a basement for two weeks after getting his soul and then was back to normal..😉

Personally, I prefer Riley and Buffy, but that is more along the lines of best of a bad bunch (and I consider her choice in men to be a sterling advertisement for giving them up as a bad job and sticking to women! 😀 ). But that means I have no investment in Bangel or Spuffy, and my feelings for them are dislike and outright loathing respectively. I think DB rapidly got better, and S2 and his transformation into Angelus, and there actually being a difference with and without a soul, showed he could act. He may have come in as pretty scenery but he was more than that. It should be remembered that the main cast of Buffy was by and large inexperienced.

 

[hoponlilmama]

Personally, I prefer Riley and Buffy, but that is more along the lines of best of a bad bunch (and I consider her choice in men to be a sterling advertisement for giving them up as a bad job and sticking to women! 😀 ). But that means I have no investment in Bangel or Spuffy, and my feelings for them are dislike and outright loathing respectively. I think DB rapidly got better, and S2 and his transformation into Angelus, and there actually being a difference with and without a soul, showed he could act. He may have come in as pretty scenery but he was more than that. It should be remembered that the main cast of Buffy was by and large inexperienced.

Riley was good until they had to assassinate his character and break them up, because...DRAMA! I'm one of the few Briley supporters out there, I think!

DB, compared to the rest of the cast was probably the one with the least experience. NB would be close behind, but ASH, SMG and AH had experience behind them.

I think DB's acting sticks out because he is paired with SMG who was obviously more talented and had built a resume.

 

[NotASlayer]

Riley was good until they had to assassinate his character and break them up, because...DRAMA! I'm one of the few Briley supporters out there, I think!

I think it was more because SPIKE!/SPUFFY! 😀 I prefer Briley to Spuffy. But I prefer almost everything to Spuffy, so...

DB, compared to the rest of the cast was probably the one with the least experience. NB would be close behind, but ASH, SMG and AH had experience behind them.

I think in terms of number of episodes in one series, Sarah was top followed by Emma. ASH had more years of experience. A lot of the rest were lucky to have been double digits as the same character.

 

[thrasherpix]

how creative it is.

It IS creative. But in a tweak the tropes then repeat them ad nauseum, sometimes as if they copied/pasted from earier scripts (but manage to heavily retcon anyway).

 

[Nikkolas]

I don't hate Anya but whenever I think of why I like BTVS, she is nowhere near the top of the list.

 

[November]

Taras singing voice in Once More With Feeling is overrated. Shes not that good.

 

[NotASlayer]

Spike's season seven "redemption arc" and heroic sacrifice.

His so-called "redemption arc." Spike shows no remorse for anything he has done, refuses to apologise, victim-blames Buffy for his own actions, continues to psychologically abuse her and, when he discovers he is compromised and a threat to everyone, refuses to cooperate in defusing himself.

His heroic sacrifice. Unlike the redemption arc, this actually exists; it is just not as impressive as it is made out to be. Spike volunteers to fight in the final battle. So does everyone else and, unlike everyone but Faith and Buffy, Spike starts the battle with superhuman abilities. Not that brave when you are one of the three best equipped to fight.

He volunteered to wear the amulet, not knowing what it would do and that it might be dangerous. The battle was already dangerous. The Potentials volunteered not knowing if they would become Slayers. The normals volunteered knowing they would not gain superpowers. Both actions are braver. Spike's main reason for wearing it was because he thought doing so would give him, rather than Angel, a better chance of copping off with Buffy again. This is presumably the immature male showing off for a girl school of heroism.

Not taking off the amulet. Yes, heroic, but only in the sense of he did not run away when it got dangerous. Just the same as everyone else who died in the battle.

Saving the world. Nothing to do with Spike; he just happened to accidentally blow himself up showing off when someone else's plan kicked into action.

So, no redemption arc and a heroic sacrifice that, whilst it existed, was not that major.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Bangel, no question. The relationship is at best, boring and tiresome, and at worst, toxic.*

*take my opinion with a grain of salt though, I am biased

 

[DeepBlueJoy]

I can relate, Angel as a series never connected with me as much as Buffy as a series did. Although I appreciate Angel getting more development beyond 'love interest' as a character a large part of me would have been okay if he had never left Buffy (plus I have to believe if Angel never left Spuffy would have never happened and I consider than ship, and Spike in general, the most overrated thing in the franchise). I never cared much for Wesley either. Gunn could have worked just fine on Buffy I think and it may have meant more. Cordelia...depended on the day.

So funny... though I have major issues with season 4 and to a lesser degree, season 5, I actually came to the Buffyverse as a fan BECAUSE of the series Angel. I was aware of Buffy, but I hadn't really been a watcher until after I watched the first season of Angel. I came to far prefer Buffy the series, but initially, I was drawn to Angel because I was an adult, and I perceived Buffy as another 90210 or other 'teen show' and I mostly abhor teen soaps.

Angel was the obvious love interest, and, while orders of magnitude more enjoyable than Buffy Spike, Buffy Angel was just so obvious and tropey. Also, Angel refusing to help the love of his unlife in S1 and large parts of S2 and S3 just rub me the wrong way. When Xander is more into helping Buffy than Angel, there is a big problem.

Finally, Angel was designed to make the women viewers fall in love with him as shown by the casting directors description of the most gorgeous, beautiful man among men ever for the casting call. And, Boreanaz was hired because he gave several women watching his audition heart palpitations. That little gem is in a you tube interview the casting director gave. And I believe it is in the 'Casting Buffy' DVD Commentary as well.

So, I think Angel should have lived up to his casting hype and the Buffy Angel love story should have been a lot more subtle.

Funny, I never found Angel much more than eye candy. A) he's not my type, B) he couldn't act his way out of a paper bag in Buffy, and only was beginning to be competent from the early days of Angel on... The ensemble cast made the series. They worked so well together i fell in love with the AI team and all their idiosyncrasies (*idiosynCRAZIES)

I will agree... Angel the Buffy character did NOT live up to his love hype. He looked kind of wooden or kind of constipated early on, and by season 3 had developed that paean to the lovelorn teen girl horniness-provoking-puppy-dog-look which makes my skin crawl. And he wasn't even that good at it.

Angel the sexy private dick vamp was a bit more successful... but the fun of the series was the secret sauce of the cast, even the villains and the supporting cast as well as interesting and sometimes fun and always interesting stories.

____________

Three dimensional, loveable (even when not 'good' or 'heroic') Characters are a feature of the Buffyverse, and it was getting to know Angel, Cordelia, Wesley and wanting to know their back story that made me start watching Buffy in earnest.

Then i totally and completely grew to love Buffy, the character and the series.

__________

The biggest two things that I think were mistakes... (and therefore overrated)

1) The trio (just UGH). There had to be a better way to show Buffy struggle with life.

2) The way the potentials were handled --- I dunno about 'overrated' exactly, but the potentials simply don't work as written and it wasn't and shouldn't have ever been their show. I do like the idea of there being more than one slayer. On a world of billions of people and millions of demons, it is simply not likely that ONE slayer could be enough. When one slayer was created in prehistory, there couldn't have been even millions... But, the invasion of a thousand scared and useless girls who were dropped on Buffy... just stupid.

It's not a love story, it's a statutory rape story.

Much as the Angel-Buffy story-line doesn't do anything for me, partly due to the huge age difference, I think there's an argument for someone who is responsible for the salvation of the entire planet considering herself an adult and grabbing what love she can WHILE SHE'S STILL ALIVE.