What does it mean?

[thetopher]

He was in love with her in his own way, which was obsessive and demonic, but he was the one person in her life who really tried to take care of her and give her what she needed. All her friends, as I said, were too busy trying to pretend everything was fine with her, too busy with their own traumas, or on a plane to England. So he was there for her, and he tried - and she admitted that it helped her when she told him she was using him and she needed to be strong. It's not black and white - good and evil - it's rather more nuanced.

It is nuanced, in all things. Her friends didn't ignore Buffy, they were preoccupied with their own problems and Buffy also successfully hid the truth from them for a long time- first about heaven and then about Spike. Also she insisted that they 'wanting her to get better' was making it harder. She said it herself, so what are they suposed to do? The thing they should've done was take her to some sort of therapist (perhaps a Watcher's Council one that could deal with supernatural trauma?) and help her that way.

You are using needed in the sense of we all need to eat our veggies and get plenty of sleep. I am using the word needed in the sense of I need to stay up all night and drink with my BFF and call in sick tomorrow. Not all needs are healthy - and frankly healthy has a pretty big range.

I think the word 'need' gets abused too much. A junkie doesn't 'need' a fix but simply wants one. They actually need a stint in rehab. A needy person is just clingy and insecure.
Not all needs are easy but they are, for the most part, for your own good. Wants can be good or bad, harmless indulence or toxic.

Buffy did grow - from a desiccated corpse with her soul in heaven to literally fighting her way into the light (yes, horribly lame scene).

That's why I don't think Buffy learns anything. The payoff is s in her last lines of the very last episode of the season. There's no evolution of thought, no real progresion in Buffy's learning. She just 'decides' to be happy because the world didn't end. The whole depression arc falls flat for me because it isn't an arc- its a line at the end.

She learned she couldn't fix other people - Willow still went crazy and Xander still abandoned Anya, and she found out that she couldn't fix everyone but she could fix herself.

I disagree. Buffy is still learning this painful lesson in S7. there's even an episode about it 'Help'. Sometimes Buffy can't save somebody, even when she tries her best.
The more I think about it Buffy is the only one who endures S6, everyone else learns something about themselves. Xander, Willow, Spike, Anya, even Dawnie.

Maybe Buffy learned something about her slayer nature, but really, deep down she knew about that because Faith told her in S3 'Consequences' and S4 'Sanctuary', Buffy just didn't want to listen/was in denial.

I don't know if I would classify Angel as a want or a need - but it was a beautiful romantic moment (as much as I think an older guy should keep it zipped until shes of age). The mistake there was tragic, and I think it was life shattering in a lot of ways. I agree, it created the sex=pain paradigm that ruled her for a long time. This was an innocent mistake that blew up her life.

I agree that Angel was not innocent in their joint-decision and they both suffered greatly for it. But I think as metaphor it works as a 'want', an indulgence that costs them both.
As Whistler states in Becoming 'nobody saw you coming'. He didn't think they would fall in love, he didn't think they'd boink. Angel was supposed to stop Acathla not bring him to life. A definite mistake on both their parts then.

This is not a healthy place to be. Spike is a vampire who she has trusted and worked with, and he understands her pain and he loves her in his own way. Demonic love is great for demons - and I think she uses him to exorcise her demons. He is more than happy to be used - to him this is probably a healthy relationship, Buffy is more sane than Dru.

That's the thing about their relationship. It was never as bad for Spike as it was for Buffy- he loved it, the torment, the sex, probably even the violence in the alley where Buffy beats him half to death ('you always hurt the ones you love, pet' he says with a broken face) but it isn't like that for Buffy. It 'is killing her', and she's not talking about morality, she's talking about her mental health, he sense of self. Nothing makes sense because he is a demon without humanity and she shouldn't be doing these things with him.
And she's right, she's better than that. She shouldn't be punching a helpless Spike in the face and she shouldn't be riding a love-sick Spike like a pony.

The teasing was when he was Angelus - unless you believe Angel has been screwing Dru behind Buffy's back.

But it is Angel speaking and making sexual references. Given what happens later on in the season with Angelus and Dru it's clear that Angel's talking about sex, not torture. He's playing on Spike's insecurity about his relationship with Dru.
Eh, maybe Dru just liked the attention, Buffy was right to call her a big ho. 😛

And yes, he's hot - why do you have such a problem with that? There aren't very many men in that universe who are not hot.

I suppose I have a problem because its clearly a mutually abusive relationship with so many warning signs flashing about all over the place. Spike's stalking and psychological abuse, the things he says to Buffy, isolating her from her friends, making her feel disgusted and not caring because he's getting what he wants. And Buffy's out-of-character behaviour towards him- I tend to find them distubing and not hot. I can't engage with it on a visual level even though these are two very pretty people being intimate.
But hey, I don't find 'Fifty Shades Of Grey' hot either, so to each their own. 😉

Actually, Buffy hobbled home from her sexcapades with Spike, satisfied, exhausted and sore. Didn't have the energy to go slay.

Maybe that first time but never after. That's why I think It's like an addiction with Buffy- she's chasing that first, best 'high' (Smashed) but their encounters clearly become less and less satifying as their relationship continues. By 'As You Were' they are clearly pathetic and desparate fumblings for her- a quick fix.

so he had to be damn good in bed for her to get so completely addicted.

Or she had nothing else, could feel nothing else, so he was better than nothing?

That's not a stage direction that got changed. And guess what - this was after that spell induced marathon - guess even at his best Riley doesn't make the grade

In all seriousness I don't think Buffy would even be able to compare S4/5 Riley with her current state in S6. She remembers heaven, the bliss and the peace she felt there, so how could she make an accurate comparison of the emotions/pleasure she felt?
All I see is that Buffy never seemed bored when she was with Riley, and she did sometimes seem bored with Spike. That's why I don't rate him as 'the best' she's ever had. I mean, that would clearly be Angel!Twilight god-sex, and I can't stand that crap.
Again, YVMV. 🙂

And again, unless the characters say/state something 'viking in the sack, stevadore, make you pop like warm champagne' people can draw their own conclusions without statements from the characters, not instructions from the script.

 

[cryptwarmer]

Because of gratitude? That's all it was.
See, Buffy loves Xander and she knows that he loves her back- she trusts him because he is one of her best friends, they've been through so much that its an unspoken thing.
Buffy doesn't have that connection with Spike- he has been an enemy, a stalker and, at best, a reluctant ally. So maybe Buffy thinks that Spike needs a demonstation of her gratitude that Xander does not. An 'i appreciate what you did' moment.
I mean, not even Jane Espenson- who actually wrote the scene and is the biggest Spuffy on the show- says its anything romantic. It's a sweet thank you and nothing more.

Seriously?

Nothing but a sweet thank you?

She's not a 12year old girl. She's a woman who's been with a few men.

Spike has confessed undying love, kidnapped her, stalked her and had a sex doll of her custom made.

Knowing all that...plus now believing he has real feeling, why would she kiss him on the lips?

Not saying she wanted to get down and dirty with him but it was more than a sweet thank you. At the very least it was her acknowledgement that he was a man, and that his feelings were legitimate.

If a simple thank you was all JE intended she went a funny way round of showing it.

But after listening to several of JE's commentary this doesn't surprise me. I've found many things she says don't make sense to me. She and I speak different love languages.