Question What if Buffy wasn't white?

[zobothehobo]

Uh...I can tell you for a fact that those towns are really affluent towns for the most part. Sunnydale was never meant to be an affluent, rich town whose whiteness just happened that way. For a single mother to own a home there, or someone like Xander with heavily implied family/financial issues, it's really unlikely that they'd live in one of these places, much less that Sunnydale was meant to represent towns like that.

I disagree. It felt to me like the town was supposed to be one of those affluent, rich towns whose whiteness just happened that way and the money issue is the part that was unrealistic. I think that Joss and Co set up Sunnydale around the stereotypical nice white town in Southern California and didn't really pay attention to the money stuff. Money in the Buffyverse contradicted itself in many ways. I could write an essay on how the issue of money was dealt with horribly in the Buffyverse. In this case, it was the money that was off... not the race.

 

[prophecygrrl]

Of course we're all equal. Of course. But we're not all the same. There's such a huge difference!

 

[zobothehobo]

Of course we're all equal. Of course. But we're not all the same. There's such a huge difference!

I agree. For that reason, race is important when picking your cast. It can be an incredible tool. Try not to look at Buffy as being "too white" in the sense of there are no minorities and look at it as a tool.

 

[The Chosen]

Of course we're all equal. Of course. But we're not all the same. There's such a huge difference!

I've never really heard such an argument -- can you elaborate on this huge difference?

 

[The Unspoken]

There's a race bias present in EVERYONE's mindset, not just of those working in the TV and movie industry. We constantly make assumptions and decisions based on prejudices and biases towards certain races without even realizing it.

When it comes to TV shows and movies, it means that when a character is created, he or she is usually by default white, unless a certain ethnic or cultural background is somehow relevant to that character's persona.

 

[zobothehobo]

That last post made me feel the need to post this song. Enjoy.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbud8rLejLM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbud8rLejLM[/ame]

 

[prophecygrrl]

I've never really heard such an argument -- can you elaborate on this huge difference?

Sure.

Across races and genders and sexualities, we are not grey, faceless blobs. The anti-racism solution is not in treating us like we are.

We deserve equal standing, equal dignity, and equal rights.
But we are fundamentally not the same. And I like it that way. To treat people like blobs, or in this instance, set 'whiteness' as the standard representation in media and culture is to erase our differences. And while I can't speak for ALL people of color, I know personally those differences are sometimes all you have.

---------- Post added at 04:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:52 PM ----------

xfivebyfive agrees: there may be cultural differences but not race. The color of your skin doesn't make you different.

Of course the color of my skin makes me different. Not genetically or intrinsically of course, but we live in a society built on race privilege. Race matters; we don't live in a magic colorblind social vacuum. The problem is in discrimination based on race, not recognizing race itself.

 

[zobothehobo]

Of course the color of my skin makes me different. Not genetically or intrinsically of course, but we live in a society built on race privilege. Race matters; we don't live in a magic colorblind social vacuum. The problem is in discrimination based on race, not recognizing race itself.

1. I agree with what you're saying, but I think you're saying it wrong. I think my song says it best actually.
2. Going back to the discussion at hand, wouldn't it be discrimination to change a desired setting just to represent this or that race more equally?

 

[NY State of Mind]

1. I agree with what you're saying, but I think you're saying it wrong. I think my song says it best actually.
2. Going back to the discussion at hand, wouldn't it be discrimination to change a desired setting just to represent this or that race more equally?

Ok but what about LA....where's all the Latino's specifically Mexican? On Angel I meant by the way 🙂

 

[zobothehobo]

Ok but what about LA....where's all the Latino's specifically Mexican? On Angel I meant by the way

I said before in one of my first posts in this thread there could have been more Hispanic people. Actually, in Angel there really should have been more Hispanic people, I agree.

 

[msfantastico87]

Hmmm well interesting answers by some.

@Zobothehobo I love that song, and yes I do agree that everyone may be a little bit racist, just like everyone is little bit gay 😉

I can see that this has turned into quite a debate on racism. Do you think the show is racist? -This was not the question I was asking. I was not looking to play the race card and start a racial debate lol

My opinions?

I just think that Buffy being the dumb bimbo blonde girl that she was, is what brought the essence of Buffy into the show. I think that if it had been someone else playing Buffy, it may not have had the same impact. Not being racist at all, but I can't imagine a Hispanic girl playing Buffy's part. Don't get me wrong, being Puerto Rican myself, I have enjoyed many television shows and movies where the main characters are Puerto Rican. It adds to the drama and all since we Puerto Ricans are pretty stereotypical 😛 It would make things a little too different for me and I'm not sure the show would have had the same success rate that it has now.

I do however would have liked to see Buffy date outside of her race. Which is why I mentioned JAR playing Angel, or possibly Spike (JAR with a bleach blonde wig?). I kinda like how they got Kennedy to be played by Iyari Limón(that's IS her name right?), a Mexican woman. However, I don't like that the characters we tend to hate the most are non-white. Get what I mean?

Also, as for the location, California is so overrated 😛 I would have enjoyed it much more if it was filmed in NY or possibly RI. Japan sounds interesting, but then wouldn't most of the characters have to be Japanese? Could you imagine one of the big bads being a Gozilla-like creature? That would have been kick-ass. Or maybe if the show had taken place in Japan, "I robot, you Jane" might have been a bit more interesting since their technology is far more advanced than ours.

 

[NY State of Mind]

WOW....Jo your so racist....why does Japan need Godzilla in it lmfao....i'm just kidding but seriously....who would want to watch a show set in Rhode Island lol 😉

---------- Post added at 05:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:24 PM ----------

LMAO those are cartoons though.....but ok...whatever floats your boats 🙂

 

[zobothehobo]

LMAO those are cartoons though.....but ok...whatever floats your boats

*eh-hem* The Magic School Bus is not just a cartoon. It is an interesting, informative, but fun way to learn about science. It is animated but it is so much more than a cartoon. The Magic School Bus is magic.

 

[prophecygrrl]

1. I agree with what you're saying, but I think you're saying it wrong. I think my song says it best actually.

No, I'm not. Not to be rude, but you're not understanding me. You're speaking about individual racism, I'm talking about how we frame ourselves in relation to race privilege, and how race matters that way.

Racism means acting on power and privilege.

Also, as for the location, California is so overrated I would have enjoyed it much more if it was filmed in NY or possibly RI. Japan sounds interesting, but then wouldn't most of the characters have to be Japanese? Could you imagine one of the big bads being a Gozilla-like creature? That would have been kick-ass. Or maybe if the show had taken place in Japan, "I robot, you Jane" might have been a bit more interesting since their technology is far more advanced than ours.

have you read the comics? They have an arc set in Japan and it rocks. 😀

 

[zobothehobo]

Wishing Oceans agrees: Magic Tree House is way better.

You mean the book series? Nope. Magic School Bus all the way.

 

[msfantastico87]

have you read the comics? They have an arc set in Japan and it rocks. 😀

Not all of it, but I got to the point when they go to Japan. Which is why I think that the entire series filmed in Japan would have rocked!!! Also, Could you imagine Andrew being played by one of those really awesomely nerd-tastic Japanese? I just think since I read the comics, I've been dying to see that happen in live-action. Dawn-zilla was too awesome for words 😀

 

[zobothehobo]

No, I'm not. Not to be rude, but you're not understanding me. You're speaking about individual racism, I'm talking about how we frame ourselves in relation to race privilege, and how race matters that way.

Racism means acting on power and privilege.

Racism doesn't have to mean acting on power and privilege. I define racism by treating one or more races (or group(s) of people) differently from another because of external or superficial reasons. That includes acting on power and privilege... but it also includes anything else. Any way in which another race is treated as different is racism in my opinion.

 

[Mindfiend]

Some points:

1) I am in a long term interracial relationship, and we experience both deliberate and unconscious racism on a daily basis, be it from work colleagues, neighbours or children on the street. It's still a very terrible issue and the world isn't as politically correct or enlightened as people claim it to be.

2) Racism can work in both directions, something often ignored by the very vocal victims of it. Is it not just as racist to say the show should have actors of other races on it simply because they are of other races?

3) If you are judging Buffy from a modern attitude then you are wrong to do so, because you have to take into context the time period of the show. Things are hugely different now, a mere decade later, than they were in the late 90s. (Just look at how nowadays every teen has a cell phone, for example, whereas Buffy started out with a beeper. "If the apocalypse comes, beep me.") There were a few notable exceptions, even as far back as Shaft, soap and Oprah, but on the whole you couldn't popularise a show with an actor in the lead role who had a different racial background than the racial background of your target audience. Supporting lead was the best you could usually get away with. TV shows are all about making money, so if you couldn't make it popular with your demographic then you simply couldn't get the show made at all.

4) Buffy is a show that helped change the world. There is a rather direct line that can be followed from the 60s feminist uprising, to Sigourney Weaver's Ripley, to the Spice Girl's chant of "Girl Power" and then on to Buffy kicking ass on mainstream television. Each step changed the world just enough so that today we find it horrible to imagine that at one time women were relegated to roles of either love interest, sex object or damsel-in-distress. Singling out that it didn't also combat racial stereotypes is asking too much. Change comes in little steps and Buffy helped take on one war and win it. Applaud it for what it did do, not condemn it for what it didn't.

That's the long answer. The short answer to would it have been as popular a show with an actress of a different racial background in the lead is "No."

 

[Wishing Oceans]

Well, technically "Racism" is defined as viewing a race as inferior.

If Buffy wasn't white then it wouldn't be Buffy now would it? I don't really care what the actors' races are as long as they have talent.

 

[msfantastico87]

Applaud it for what it did do, not condemn it for what it didn't.

This times infinity!!!

I think a lot of people are speaking with the mind set of the whole racial issue back when the show first aired, and I admit I'm guilty of thinking the same way. However, I gotta agree that the show would not have been as successful. It was already treading dangerous waters when Joss decided to do the whole girl power thing when it was still not socially acceptable to men.

Which leads me to my next question...

If Joss had agreed to reboot the tv show, and he decided to be a bit more cultural in his selection of actors, do you think it would be good, or would it flop like most reboots?