What if Doyle didn't die?

[THE BLUE]

What do you reckon will happen, if Doyle didn't die?

 

[Wicked]

Him and Cordy would get together. Then as always happens, theyd break up in some horrible devastating way and one of them would probably die. Hence leaving us where we are now.

 

[eponinethen]

Yeah well, question is if he'd stay on the show and have visions instead of Cordy I guess.. But I doubt that'd happen since.. well.. they didn't want that on the show and they decide what happens 😀
(Uh sorry I'm lame, my head is tired..)

 

[Summers Blood]

Well I think that if Doyle hadn't died he probably would have carried on having the visions and Cordy would have got bored of helping Angel as really she had no reason to stay with him anymore and she would probably have got her big break as an actress and left Angel and Doyle to it.

Her and Doyle would have had a quick fling and then she would have broke his heart and run off with a famous actor who cheated on her lots but helped her career.

I know I babbled but I can't help it.

 

[freakydorky]

That would have made my day. I cried so much when Doyle died, and then again when he died in real life. I miss Doyle soo much, he was such a great character!

 

[SpikedBuffy]

I still don't think that Doyle and Cordy would've gotten together if Doyle hadn't died. There is never a happy relationship, so I'm not seeing this one.

Also, it would have severely altered Cordelia's character. I think that the visions really changed the character and made her 'grow up'. We saw a major character change, and without Doyle having pass the visions on, we might not have seen that. We might've seen a catty, mean-spirited Cordelia that wasn't all that great.

 

[Randy Giles]

Well I prefer that Cordy had the visions, but I liked Doyle. So if he stayed, there should've been a way that Cordy would've gotten the visions, and Doyle could've stayed for his comic relief. 🙂

 

[alluring dejection]

I still don't think that Doyle and Cordy would've gotten together if Doyle hadn't died. There is never a happy relationship, so I'm not seeing this one.

Also, it would have severely altered Cordelia's character. I think that the visions really changed the character and made her 'grow up'. We saw a major character change, and without Doyle having pass the visions on, we might not have seen that. We might've seen a catty, mean-spirited Cordelia that wasn't all that great.

I'm going to agree with this opinion. I mean, Joss admitted Doyle's death was planned out and everything. I'm assuming this is because the visions had to be passed on to Cordy in order for her to mature and actually have a purpose on the show rather than being the obnoxious, shallow girl on the show. Heh. Also, I don't know how Wesley would have fit into it. >.<

 

[Allycat]

It might go a little bit something like this:

Season 1
I think Doyle and Cordelia would've dated at first, but Cordelia would've pursued an acting carreer more actively. She would succeed to get some small roles and then just as she landed her big break something demon-y happened on-set and she would call in Angel, Doyle, and Wesley and after the adventure, she'd decide to stay with them. Doyle would try to woo her back, but Wesley would prove fierce competition.

Season 2
Meanwhile Gunn would join up. Doyle accidentally gets transported to Pylea, where he is treating as a royalty. Groosalugg, who is a girl, wants him to give her the visions to pass over the visions. The gang, which now includes Lorne, travels to Pylea to rescue him, they meet Fred. Doyle toys with the idea of getting it on with the girl, but as he notices the rebellion outside the castle, which AI leads, he decides not to and as soon as he sees her again, he kisses Cordelia and they're back together. When they're back in LA, they find Willow.

Season 3
After a few months, Darla turns up, pregnant. Angel becomes father of April, as Darla commits suicide. Angel and Fred feel attracted to each other more and more, but they daren't admit it. Gunn is in love with Fred too. Wesley finds a prophecy that reads the father will kill the daughter. Wesley kidnaps April to get her to safety, but Holtz takes her from him and escapes to Quar'toth. Wesley is cast out of the group. April returns as a 24 year old bend on killing Angel. Then Fred and Angel seem to go to meet up to finally confess their love for each other and April tries to capture Angel to dump him in the ocean, but Doyle gets a vision and the gang can stop it. There's a square-off between Angel and April and finally they reconciliate. Angel and Fred finally get together. Wesley starts a relationship with Lilah.

Season 4
The the Beast appears, wreaking havoc in LA and killing all W&H staff, but Lilah. Wesley and Lilah go to the Hyperion and ask for help. April pleads for Angel to forgive Wesley, like he forgave her and so it happens. When they think the world is going to end, Gunn, who realises he has no shot with Fred, sleeps with April, because he knows it will upset Angel and he holds a grudge against him. Doyle receives visions that lead the group to think that Angelus knows more about the beast. They extract his soul and lock him up in a cage. April releases Angelus and kills Gunn, framing Angelus. April shows her minion the Beast, that her tummy is growing. Short on man-power, Wesley busts Faith out of jail. With her help (and Willow's) they manage to revert Angelus back to Angel. Finally, thanks to Lorne's powers, the group finds out April is the one controlling the Beast. They want to fetch her, but just as they do, she gives birth to Jasmyn. A former-Power that latched onto April when she escaped Quar'toth. April goes into a coma. Doyle gets a vision that tells him to mix his own blood with April's. He does so and finds out Jasmyne's true nature. One by one, he "open the eyes" of Cordelia, Fred, Angel, Lilah, Wesley, and Lorne. Angel travels to Quar'toth to find out Jasmyne's real name. Back on Earth, he breaks the spell. April awakes from her coma. She tries to protect Jasmyne at first, but finally, she's the one who kills Jasmyne. She goes insane. W&H offer Angel their LA branch and in return give him the amulet and give April a better future. Angel agrees and reality is altered. Only he keeps his memories of April.

Season 5
Eve becomes their liason, Harmony becomes Angel's new secretary, and Spike is resurrected as a ghost. Fred's assistant Knox offers Spike a way to become corporeal, but that it must keep off the records and that he might ask for a favour one day too. The gang find out Lindsay is back and has been working with Eve. They defeat them. Knox cashes in on his favour to Spike by making him sign an import order. The next night, a sarcophagus is send through the mail, Harmony enthousiastically tries to open it and when she touches it it infects her. She becomes very ill and finally turns into Illyria (pic). Spike feels somewhat 🙂p) guilty. Illyria and Knox go to visit her army, but they see it's all dust now. Spike kills Knox out of revenge. Angel, Spike, and Wesley bust out of some hell dimension Lindsay to get information. Hamilton replaces Eve. April's "parents" come to Angel for help with their daughter. Spike, suspecting Angel had something to do with Harm's infection, smashing a jar, forcing April's memories back. April kills Sahjhan for Cyvus. Some of Illyria's powers are taken from her. Doyle has a vision, which reveals to him who the members of the Circle of the Black Thorne are. Angel and his make their plans to kill the Circle. Hamilton is suspicious of them. Illyria storms to House of Archduke Sebassis and kills him. Izzerial and the three unnamed human members are killed by Doyle and Cordelia with a bazooka, while they're getting into their car. The Representatives of the Sahrvin Clan are slayed by Lindsey, but after this Lindsey is shot by Lorne, who thereafter leaves. Wesley, Lilah, and Fred kill senator Brucker and their vampire henchmen. Spike battles Cyvus, they tie, but then Illyria joins him and smashes Cyvus' skull. Angel with the help of April kills Hamilton. Angel, April, Cordelia, Doyle, Fred, Illyria, Lilah, Spike, and Wesley meet up behind the Hyperion, where the Senior Partners immediately unleash a horde of demons upon the group for their affront, including a dragon. Doyle had foreseen this in a vision and the place is rigged with conventional explosives and supernatural spells. The gang flees from the army and make it out in time and the army of W&H is annihilated. Angel shanshus and can finally be perfectly happy with Fred.

Yes... I have too much time on my hands.

 

[angeldarla]

it could probably change everything. Doyle still getting the visions, he and cordy relationship should grow up. And ending with the left of cordelia cause she felt that she wasn't usefull to the team with no vision and no superpowers.

 

[Angel's vision]

it doesn't make sense now i think about it if Doyle had stayed, i mean the other seasons major plots would not of come true which where to do with the shanshu scroll
like, 1) The beast would not of had a master, and come back.
2) no Jasmine
3) No one to blackmail Angel with to take over W&H.
except maybe Conner, but he may of had a better chance at rehab.(no evil Cordy)

 

[Nix]

woow Allycat mini fanfic 😉

Well a change of actor would have had to have happened (RIP) and he still would have passed on the visions weither b4 death or another reason as it was all part of the bigger picture powers that be etc etc

 

[kimbonka]

Oh i forgot about Glenn Quinn dying. It never would have worked anyways, but thats ok, i like the way it happened!

 

[Nackereia]

Well a change of actor would have had to have happened (RIP) and he still would have passed on the visions weither b4 death or another reason as it was all part of the bigger picture powers that be etc etc

Well, I'll admit right off the bat I don't know anything about Glenn's death other than you know, drug abuse or drug overdose or something (and even *that* I don't know 😛).

But if his death was sudden, then they'd have to do some BSing for Doyle's character. And if he went to a rehab or something before he died, then they would've had to either kill off Doyle, or go Bewitched and replace Glenn with someone who looks nothing like him.

 

[freakydorky]

there would be puppies, cupcakes and candy canes... and Glen Quinn probabley wouldn't have killed himself. So when you think about it, its semi-possible that it's Joss Whedon's fault that Glen Quinn is dead

 

[Buffy Summers]

Nackereia asked me to post this for her since she cannot post links yet:

there would be puppies, cupcakes and candy canes... and Glen Quinn probabley wouldn't have killed himself. So when you think about it, its semi-possible that it's Joss Whedon's fault that Glen Quinn is dead

I disagree with you *completely* Obviously, you know nothing about suicide, or you wouldn't talk in such a way.

It's not Joss Whendon's fault *AT ALL* that Glenn choose to take his own life. When you get suicidal, you feel medically depressed. Speaking as someone who's *been* suicidal before, you feel as if you're a burden on everyone (so likely, Glenn might've quit his job from Angel, and Joss wouldn't have had to let him go), you feel like there's no one in the world who can possibly help you, that you're all alone, and all you can do is *feel* *Feel* how utterly worthless, utterly ugly, utterly mean and utterly *evil* you are. See If you're thinking about suicide, read this It explains alot of what suicidal people *think* when they go to commit suicide.

I am *highly* offended by your lack of knowledge, and the way you callously flaunt your lack of knowledge.

Also, if someone commits suicide, it's no one's fault *but* the suicide committer. Joss Whedon did *not* tell Glenn to kill himself (and if he had, and Glenn listened, that would be *murder* and Joss would be behind bars!). Glenn decided for himself to commit murder. It's no one's fault that Glenn is dead but HIS OWN.

 

[Schillaci]

Someone supply me with a link that undeniably, without any leeway whatsoever, confirms that Glen Quin commited suicide.

 

[Nackereia]

As Buffy said, I'm not able to post links, since I don't have 15 posts yet, but I commented with some links in your post, Dzhugashvili. You'll have to copy/paste them into your browser, but they do lead to legitimate places (the whendonesque one would anyways, if the site hadn't been replaced with an ad 🙁).

However, rumors persisted that actor Glenn Quinn's out-of-control substance abuse problems interfered with production.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Francis_Doyle (copy/paste into browser, don't forget to add the standard http stuff before 😉)

So, one would assume, that if those rumours are true (it's quite possible they could be false...it doesn't seem likely, but it's possible), then Doyle wouldn't have stuck around for very long anyways...though, maybe Joss would've replaced Glenn with someone else..it doesn't seem like a very "Joss" thing to do, but hey, it could happen. Personally, if I were to sack Glenn and replace him, I wouldn't worry much about the next actor looking like Glenn. I'd have made a potion change Doyle's looks, and aw, gee! There's no way to reverse it!!

As it was said before a lot of times, The Whistler was supposedly to be the supporting actor for Ats. But Max Perlich (the actor who played it) wasn't availbe, so the Doyle Character was quickly created with the same characteristics.

Joss Whedon maintained the story that Doyle's death had been planned for the beginning, regardless of the drug problems that was rumored heavily around Glenn Quinn.

In interviews before Quinn's death, creator Joss Whedon discussed plans for Doyle to return to the show as one of the season's big bad role. Quinn passed away before anything could come of the talks.

forum.buffyworld.com/archive/index.php/t-26188.html (again, copy/paste add in http, yada yada yada 😉)

the11thhour.com/archives/121999/features/doyle.html for another article from some e-zine about Doyle's death being planned all along.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

But just cuz he Od'd doesn't mean he committed suicide?

 

[Nackereia]

But just cuz he Od'd doesn't mean he committed suicide?

Mmm! Good point. I think, though, the media uses the word suicide in the slang term meaning to kill oneself. Although, you are right. The dictionary says that suicide is the act of intentionally killing onself (dictionary.reference.com/browse/suicide)