What If: Riley did stake Spike?

[DeepBlueJoy]

Spike is supposed to be a monster.
Riley is not.
Riley is barely a man.

Torture? Based on one scene where Riley literally didn't do what you accuse him of? Getting rid of Spike wouldn't have endangered anything, because he was worse than useless in his help.

If Riley had wanted to torture Spike, he could have. If he wanted to kill Spike, he could have. He chose not to. He did not get off on inflicting pain on a poor, innocent... murderous, people-eating soulless monster.

The right thing? Spike had conspired with Adam to cause a war, got a whole lot of people killed and would have got even more killed, nearly got Riley killed trying to kill Buffy, had been stalking Buffy, stealing her things, undermining her relationship - yes, Riley didn't do well, but both Buffy and Spike had their roles to play in destroying the relationship. Sure, Riley lashed out, briefly, in a non-fatal way. The equivalent of punching someone in the face. Spike, a master of psychological abuse and emotional torture deserved more. If Riley had been a tad less nice, he would have killed Spike (though it would have been better to send him to Angel after S4, which would have made both shows better). Which would have been the nicest gift to leave Buffy with, saving her from several years of abuse.

Riley is an imperfect person. But Spike is a monster. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but a monster should never be romanticised. Spike didn't start doing anything truly to try and change until seeing Hell with a soul and getting his hands chopped off. At that point, he started to improve.

Spike is supposed to be a monster. He does good things in spite of that.

Riley is not supposed to be a monster. Yet he behaves like one. When he does not, he is at best petulant and selfish.

Riley is barely a man. He acts like an entitled spoilt child at best.

 

[NoShip]

That's mental gymnastics by fans as a way to justify Spike being an International Arms dealer whose also really stupid.
The real reason was that Petre was writing Riley fan fiction and ranting about the fans not getting the character (Whedon literally said Riley wasn't accepted because the fans didn't want Buffy to be happy!) making it make sense was not a priority (see Sam and Riley timeline which doesn't add up)

Well, by this standard, Jane Espensen is writing fan fiction when Buffy kisses Spike at the end of Intervention.

Of course, Jane wrote a lot of Spike fan fiction. So.....

 

[hoponlilmama]

😍

A particularly good way to kill a sociopath

Calling Riley a sociopath is a stretch.

who stabs people with plastic stakes

People? Are we watching the same show? And for the record, the ONE person he stabbed is a demon, not a person.

for E$#% & giggles.

I don't see Riley laughing.

I always thought that any remaining goodwill for Riley was pretty much gone after he staked a defenseless Spike... for the purpose of torture.

Stop calling Spike defenseless when we've seen he can still inflict damage.

Honestly, I think there was more than one time when actually staking Spike might have been a rational choice... Fake staking him, OTOH, however, was simply gratuitous torture.

I would have had zero sympathy for Riley had Spike (already in agony do to the 'faux' staking) had grabbed the plastic stake and returned the favour.

Blatant Riley hatred, but that's ok, not everyone likes him.

Post automatically merged: May 5, 2026

Well, by this standard, Jane Espensen is writing fan fiction when Buffy kisses Spike at the end of Intervention.

Of course, Jane wrote a lot of Spike fan fiction. So.....

God, that was awful. And she tells him the sexbot he created of her was 'gross' yet the writers stupidly have her give Spike a kiss. Telling him thanks was enough.

 

[NotASlayer]

Spike is supposed to be a monster.
Riley is not.
Riley is barely a man.

Spike is supposed to be a monster. He does good things in spite of that.

Riley is not supposed to be a monster. Yet he behaves like one. When he does not, he is at best petulant and selfish.

Riley is barely a man. He acts like an entitled spoilt child at best.

Riley is a flawed individual,. just like everyone else. He does things, some good, some bad, but overall good., Spike is a monster and mostly does bad things, and some good, but overall bad. Romanticising the monster is wrong. Saying that Spike is excused everything bad he does, because he is a demon, but should be applauded instead if he does anything good, is a head I win, tails you lose situation. Spike always has a get out of jail card free under that.

Even worse, so does every other vampire.

All vampires are demons. Everything they do is therefore not their fault; in many cases less their fault than Spike, who became a monster through choice. Many vampires did not. By that logic, Buffy isn't a hero; she's a murderer who goes around killing things who could have become better.

Do we know if vampires in general fight with their issues? Not directly, because all we see in most cases is Buffy killing them. For all we know, they may hate what they are and want to change, but are never given the chance to do so. Sure, Spike did, eventually, decide to change, but he certainly hadn't at this point (Greenwalt didn't make an infamous comment about, I believe, serial killer lovers because Spike was good, but because a monster who wanted to remain one was being romanticised). Should all vampires be given a free pass to murder because at some point in the future they may change.

 

[DeepBlueJoy]

Even if you hate all vampires (and this is a valid path to consider), it does not justify Riley.

He was part of the Nazi brown shirts 2.0 who hunted all sorts of sentient beings, not all of whom were a danger. Remember Oz? He happily supported Mengele labs inc who experiemented on sentient beings and he condoned and participated in torture. He also cheated on his girlfrirend by visiting suck houses and putting HER and her family & friends and the PLANET in danger - because if he had been turned then any of them could have been turned.

Riley was a vile and contemptible human being. Even if you dont like either Spike or Angel, at least they saved the world. Even without being remotely good Spike knew this was a good thing to do.

Riley just whine because he wasnt as strong as Buffy and she did not live to please him while trying to take care of her family, school and world saving.

Whiney Riley is a skid mark of a person.