What if Xander was a main character on Angel?

[Mr Trick]

Yeah and no one is saying that he isn't a flawed character but most of the good characters (outside of Tara) on the show are flawed. Many of Xander's mistakes are down to him still finding his way in life. As I have pointed out in the past he left Anya at the altar as much for her own good as for his own. They rushed into marriage without thinking about the conseqences first.

And anyone who thinks that Xander should just forgive Angel and accept him just isn't applying human logic to the situation.

 

[jom]

And anyone who thinks that Xander should just forgive Angel and accept him just isn't applying human logic to the situation.

He doesnt have to forgive Angel, he just have to stay away from buffy and angel relationship. He think and maybe the show runner gives him power over whom buffy should be with. He literally think he owns Buffy. Yes he is flawed like all characters but the others get their comeuppance while this guy doesnt, Well Spike got anya while he watched, so the writers decided to get him at least once

 

[EVIL UU]

I think it's funny how hardcore Angel fans hate on Xander because the way I see it, those two characters are ridiculously similar.

 

[Mr Trick]

He doesnt have to forgive Angel, he just have to stay away from buffy and angel relationship. He think and maybe the show runner gives him power over whom buffy should be with. He literally think he owns Buffy. Yes he is flawed like all characters but the others get their comeuppance while this guy doesnt, Well Spike got anya while he watched, so the writers decided to get him at least once

But its not like he is the only one who is against the idea of Angel being back or them accepting him back. Giles is too. I don't get this silly idea that all the characters have to get some kind of comeuppance as a result of bad acts, its a flawed idea on so many levels. Don't forget that Xander suffers more than most characters throughout the series by constantly coming in second best, or not having the powers of the other.

 

[thetopher]

He doesnt have to forgive Angel, he just have to stay away from buffy and angel relationship. He think and maybe the show runner gives him power over whom buffy should be with. He literally think he owns Buffy. Yes he is flawed like all characters but the others get their comeuppance while this guy doesnt, Well Spike got anya while he watched, so the writers decided to get him at least once

I seem to remember Xander getting horribly and permenantly mutilated by somebody.
That's pretty bad considering that Xander has helped save the world a bunch of times and NEVER tried to have it destroyed, or even try and kill any of his friends, which puts him over a whole bunch of other characters.

 

[Silverspike]

Well to be fair he has caused deaths by his actions (can we say Once more with feeling here) but no, unlike Spike and Angel he hasn't been guilty of trying to murder half of europe in his time. 😀

But I rather like old Xander.

 

[janas]

Wesley who people thought was gonna be the xander of Angel turned out to be one of the best thing about Angel because he was the anti-xander.

Maybe you want to say Gunn? People thought Gunn was gonna be the Xander of Angel, because Wesley has always been associated with Giles or the anti-Giles, if you prefer it.

 

[Blaze]

Not sure about all the character comparison. Xander doesn't have to become "dark" like Wes to evolve and become more mature. I quite like the story we got for Xander, he matures very organically. You see the difference between s1 and s7 Xander, but at the same time Xander still acts like a 22yo. Not like a 35yo like most other characters.

I don't see Xander fitting very well on AtS. I'd like to see his interactions with Cordy, but that's a bout it. I think he would have had good interactions with Kate though for some reasons. I get a feeling that those two would have made a good couple, just some random thoughts. But him working with Angel and Wes, na I don't see it.

More importantly, Xander fights evil because his friends do. 100% if he wasn't friends with Buffy and Willow, he wouldn't just start a solo mission to stop evil. He's in it because of his heart. And that just simply wouldn't be there if he was on AI.

 

[Mr Trick]

Not sure about all the character comparison. Xander doesn't have to become "dark" like Wes to evolve and become more mature. I quite like the story we got for Xander, he matures very organically. You see the difference between s1 and s7 Xander, but at the same time Xander still acts like a 22yo. Not like a 35yo like most other characters.

I don't see Xander fitting very well on AtS. I'd like to see his interactions with Cordy, but that's a bout it. I think he would have had good interactions with Kate though for some reasons. I get a feeling that those two would have made a good couple, just some random thoughts. But him working with Angel and Wes, na I don't see it.

More importantly, Xander fights evil because his friends do. 100% if he wasn't friends with Buffy and Willow, he wouldn't just start a solo mission to stop evil. He's in it because of his heart. And that just simply wouldn't be there if he was on AI.

Awesome post and I agree with just about everything. There is a consistecy to Xander's character in the way he talks and sometimes goofs around even in the later episodes. If he stopped doing that it wouldn't feel like the same character. But at the sametime like you say he does envolve but naturally. To me he maybe one of the best characters on the show, very underrated at least.

Good point on a possible relationship with Kate I could see that working too. Think her more grounded serious approach would mix well with his comic tone and I just see them as a naturally couple. You would also get around some of the issues which Angel and Kate have.

Mostly I do think Xander is a good egg, and is very supportive to Buffy and Willow, and just does the right thing in the fight against evil🙂

 

[Fuffy Baith]

Not like a 35yo like most other characters.

I don't see Xander fitting very well on AtS. I'd like to see his interactions with Cordy, but that's a bout it. I think he would have had good interactions with Kate though for some reasons. I get a feeling that those two would have made a good couple, just some random thoughts.

Yea but Xander looked like he was 35 by the end of the show. He certainly didn't look 22 or 23 but aside from his Anya love (obsession) he did act like a 20 yr old male. It's a shame we never get to see Xander and Cordy interact after Buffy S3. I'm a big fan of them as a couple. Also like the idea of Xander and Kate. They could both bond over why they hate Angel. lol.

 

[Mr Trick]

Yea but Xander looked like he was 35 by the end of the show. He certainly didn't look 22 or 23 but aside from his Anya love (obsession) he did act like a 20 yr old male. It's a shame we never get to see Xander and Cordy interact after Buffy S3. I'm a big fan of them as a couple. Also like the idea of Xander and Kate. They could both bond over why they hate Angel. lol.

Can see Xander/Kate as that brother and sister type couple who always seem so tight.

Remember at the time expecting Cordy to be in Buffy S4 for more Xander interaction. But overall have no issues with the direction of the character.

 

[thetopher]

Xander/Kate is a buddy cop movie waiting to happen. She's the hard-nosed veteran cop, he's the rookie guy who 'sees things'.

Lockley and Harris on the streets of LA. 🙂

 

[Mr Trick]

Xander/Kate is a buddy cop movie waiting to happen. She's the hard-nosed veteran cop, he's the rookie guy who 'sees things'.

Lockley and Harris on the streets of LA. 🙂

Well you know one day when I have power in the biz I might just write/direct that and will credit you with the idea😎

 

[jom]

I seem to remember Xander getting horribly and permenantly mutilated by somebody.
That's pretty bad considering that Xander has helped save the world a bunch of times and NEVER tried to have it destroyed, or even try and kill any of his friends, which puts him over a whole bunch of other characters.

not when you are an annoying judgy von holier than thou. I dont even care that he hated angel, im ok with hate as long as you mind your business and live on your side of the street. He always had to be in the business of Buffy and angel or any relationship she has for that matter. How is it that when Riley was about to leave and Buffy was not gonna get in his way, Xander is the one who comes in and makes Buffy cry and run after Riley?. Something is not right here, did the writers wanted to make him the love ruler of Buffy or maybe her conscience. It's not like he didnt have a life, he just felt entitled to buffy's life.

He helped save the world many times? Can you list them and his actual job on those saved

 

[Blaze]

not when you are an annoying judgy von holier than thou. I dont even care that he hated angel, im ok with hate as long as you mind your business and live on your side of the street. He always had to be in the business of Buffy and angel or any relationship she has for that matter. How is it that when Riley was about to leave and Buffy was not gonna get in his way, Xander is the one who comes in and makes Buffy cry and run after Riley?. Something is not right here, did the writers wanted to make him the love ruler of Buffy or maybe her conscience. It's not like he didnt have a life, he just felt entitled to buffy's life.

All I gather from this post is that Xander actually acts like a friend would (because friends are protective of people they love usually). I agree that with Riley, he went one step too far in Into the Woods, it wasn't his place at all. But overall, Xander just acts as any friend would. He gives Buffy his opinion, and she can do what she wants with that. He never directly puts himself between her and one of her lover, he just gives her advice. Xander cares about Buffy as a friend, of course he'll get worried if she's dating a vampire (and I'm not talking about s1 jealous Xander, I'm talking about after Xander gets over his crush). In the end, Xander just doesn't want to see Buffy gets hurt.

He helped save the world many times? Can you list them and his actual job on those saved

Well for one he prevented the whole school from blowing up in the Zeppo, which would have killed Buffy and all the others, which would have mean that no one would have stopped the apocalypse. Result: everyone dies. I'd say Xander did pretty good on that one.

Just a few other examples, he saves Buffy in s1, again essentially saving the world because she then gets to kill the Master.

He helps defeat Adam by combining his power with Buffy.

He's the one to get all the gun power to defeat the Mayor on the graduation.

He's the one to bring back Willow, who would have destroyed the world if not for Xander in s6.

Ya, I'd say Xander is pretty important.

 

[thetopher]

not when you are an annoying judgy von holier than thou. I dont even care that he hated angel, im ok with hate as long as you mind your business and live on your side of the street. He always had to be in the business of Buffy and angel or any relationship she has for that matter. How is it that when Riley was about to leave and Buffy was not gonna get in his way, Xander is the one who comes in and makes Buffy cry and run after Riley?. Something is not right here, did the writers wanted to make him the love ruler of Buffy or maybe her conscience. It's not like he didnt have a life, he just felt entitled to buffy's life.

Yeah, D'Hofryn called Xander 'gallant' which is an apt decription of one of his key character faults. He can be overly protective of his friends, he can be judgemental or a hypocrite or holier than thou- the guy isn't perfect I get that. But his is realistic in those situations, he's a jealous jackass in the highschool years, but he's rightly concerned that Buffy is screwing a soulless monster- 'cause that ain't healthy and he says so.

I think Xander was out of line with his speech to Buffy about Riley in 'Into The Woods' but that's almost certainly coloured by Riley confiding in him at the end of 'The Replacement'. And it's still a valid pov, I just don't agree with it because Riley was obviously in the wrong and trying to make Buffy feel like she was the one at fault (and hey, guess what, it works- Buffy thinks that its her fault...).

But bearing in mind that he's probably the Scoobie with the least blood on his hands (with the exception of Dawn) I still think it's harsh to say that he 'doesn't get his comeuppance' when he loses a frikkin eye in the fight against evil.

He helped save the world many times? Can you list them and his actual job on those saved

-Saves Buffy's life in 'Prophecy Girl' by forcing Angel to help him go and back up Buffy. Brings her back to life so that she can stop the Master from bringing about the Apocalypse.
- Comes up with the 'no weapon forged' loophole and uses his army knowledge to get Buffy a rocket launcher to destroy the Judge.
- Stops the school getting blown up and consequently everyone dying in 'The Zeppo'
- Provides weapons for the Graduating class at the end of S3. Buffy describes him as 'key guy' throughout the plan
- Part of the 'super-slayer' spell in S4, in fact he sparks Giles idea.
- Helps wear down Glory with wrecking ball. Plus he's the reason Anya is even there to provide all those Glory-stopping ideas in S5.
- Single-handedly stops Dark Willow with the power of his mouth. (You get what I mean).

Basically he saves the world more times than anybody other than Buffy if you actually analyse it. The guy should maybe get a bit more respect than he does. You don't have to like him (I only like him about 60% of the time anyway) but he does matter.

 

[jom]

and hey, guess what, it works- Buffy thinks that its her fault...).

Exactly, and that's part of the problem. The writers gave him too much power over Buffy, fraking seriously, she was in the right but xander....the ruler of buffy....overrules her.

The guy was giving too much importance in the show, but he was obnoxious, he is a dweep and nerdy but he is the kind who makes fun of the dweeps because the guy is an obnoxious douchebag.

 

[thetopher]

Exactly, and that's part of the problem. The writers gave him too much power over Buffy, fraking seriously, she was in the right but xander....the ruler of buffy....overrules her.

But you missed the point RILEY made Buffy feel that way, not Xander. Riley's the major idiot here, Xander's like a mini-douche my comparison.

Xander may have added to it sure, but he didn't know what was really going on for about half of his silly speech, and then Buffy says 'Riley's been cheating on me with vamp-hoe's' and Xander blinks goes 'okay, can you forgive him? Can you get past this? is there a future here for the two of you? If there isn't fine then let him go, but if there is a chance then maybe you should run dramatically to where the helicopoter is.'
So Buffy runs to where Riley is waiting because apparently she knows where a helicopter would land in a small town without being told. Yeah, I never got that bit. 😕

 

[jom]

But you missed the point RILEY made Buffy feel that way, not Xander. Riley's the major idiot here, Xander's like a mini-douche my comparison.

Xander may have added to it sure, but he didn't know what was really going on for about half of his silly speech, and then Buffy says 'Riley's been cheating on me with vamp-hoe's' and Xander blinks goes 'okay, can you forgive him? Can you get past this? is there a future here for the two of you? If there isn't fine then let him go, but if there is a chance then maybe you should run dramatically to where the helicopoter is.'
So Buffy runs to where Riley is waiting because apparently she knows where a helicopter would land in a small town without being told. Yeah, I never got that bit. 😕

Riley didnt make buffy feel that way, he told her how he felt but she didnt feel it was her fault. Xander was the one who told her it was her fault and then she went running after riley which is my whole point, who in the world is xander, buffy's decider?

 

[thetopher]

Well, since I'm on the transcript page:
Bear in mine that Riley has been caught CHEATING on Buffy with vamp-hoes

BUFFY: I'm serious. Unless you want a fight-

RILEY: So let's fight. We need to have this out, Buffy. Right now. Buffy turns on Riley.

BUFFY: (pained) And say what, Riley? What were you thinking? How long have you been lying to me? (then) Nothing you can say right now is going to make it better.

(She tries to move past him, but Riley grabs her - holds her fast.)

RILEY: I realize that. I don't expect...I just need you to hear me out.

(A beat. Buffy relents a bit - but her expression remains hard.)

BUFFY: Fine. But get your hands off me.

(She says this last with such pain and force that Riley unhands her. Buffy stands her ground, waiting for him to talk.)

RILEY: I think - I... when this thing started, it was just some stupid, immature game. I wanted to even the score after you let Dracula bite you-

BUFFY: I did not let him-

RILEY: (cutting her off) I know. On some level I know that. But I was still spun, and, I don't know... I wanted to know what you felt, I wanted to know why Angel and Dracula had so much power over you-

BUFFY: (shakes her head) You so don't get it.

(Riley grows emphatic, trying so hard to be understood.)

RILEY: Exactly. Which is why I let the first one bite me... I wanted to get it, Buffy. I wanted to get you-

BUFFY: So this is my fault? Gee, Buffy's so mysterious - I think I'll go almost die. I think I'll let some other woman...

(She stops, can't even say it.)

RILEY: This isn't your fault. It's mine. And I feel like hell for what I've put you through. But it's just -these girls-

BUFFY: Vampires, killers.

RILEY: (ignoring) They made me feel something. Something I didn't even know I was missing until-

(Buffy starts past him again - this is too much.)

BUFFY: I can't. I can't hear this-

(Riley grabs her by the arm again, desperate to get through to her, desperate to make her understand...)

RILEY: You need to hear this-

BUFFY: (livid) Fine. Tell me about your whores. Tell me what on earth they've been giving you that I can't.

RILEY: They needed me, Buffy-

BUFFY: (cutting him off) They needed your money! It wasn't about you.

RILEY: No - on some basic level it was about me. My blood. My body. When they bit me, it was beyond passion... They wanted to devour me, all of me-

BUFFY: (pained) Why are you telling me this?

RILEY: It wasn't real. I know. It was just physical. But the fact that I craved it, that I kept going back... Even if it was fleeting - they made me feel like they had such hunger for me...

(It dawns on Buffy now what he's trying to say - and it hits her like a slap in the face.)

BUFFY: And - I don't? Make you feel that way?

(Riley falls silent. That's what he's saying. Buffy's appalled.)

BUFFY: How can you compare me to, to that? How can you say you understand what those vampires were feeling? You're not a passion to them, you're a snack! An idiotic, willing snack!

RILEY: I know exactly what they feel when they bite me - because I feel it every time we're together. It's like the whole world falls away - and all there is is you.

BUFFY: And you don't think I care that way about you? How dare you tell me-

RILEY: (cutting her off) You keep me at a distance Buffy. You didn't even call me when your mom went into the hospital.

BUFFY: I'm sorry I couldn't take care of you when I thought my mom was dying.

RILEY: It's about me taking care of you! It's about letting me in, so you don't have to be on top of everything all the time-

BUFFY: But I do. See, that's part of what a slayer is. And that's really what this is about. You can't handle that I'm stronger than you.

RILEY: It's hard sometimes, yes. But that's not it-

BUFFY: Then what? What do you want from me Riley? I've given you everything I have. Every part of me, body and soul-

RILEY: (anguished) You say that, but I don't feel it.

BUFFY: Well whose fault is that? Because I'm telling you - this is me. This is the package. And if it's so deficient that you need to get your kicks elsewhere
then we have a real problem.

(This hits Riley hard. A beat, then-)

RILEY: They want me back, Buffy. The military. It's deep undercover. No contact with civilians. (then) The transport's leaving tonight.

Riley starts off contrite but by the end he basically lays his behaviour on Buffy 'not loving him' or some crap and then gives her an ultimatum. He makes her feel likes its her fault and that its up to her to fix it.