What is it you don't like about the Buffy character?

[Silum]

Reading the thread again, I notice what Buffy Summers pointed out right away. You say that you’ll discuss Buffys role as the hero, yet you just ask what we don’t like about her. Likeability is not what makes the hero, so that question is not really interesting for your “essay’type thing”.

Perhaps you should read again.

I'll take the 'Empty Spaces' thread as an example. A LOT of people side with those rejecting Buffy and they have their reasons. Im more interested in what they think lead them to think Buffy was any less of a hero. Its a combination of both what people think makes Buffy less a hero and why people dont like the character.

If you like the character but dont connect with her as the hero. Why? Or if you see her as the hero, but just dont like her. Why? Or if you just dont care.... this aint the thread for you!

 

[itsxpaperdoll]

To me, Buffy is a hero. I very much like WA iron ore comparison: no matter how evil and big the Big Bad (external, but also internal), she will always keep fighting for what she thinks is good. She trusts her friends, but not too much, because she doesn't want to get them into dangerous situations.

But, when I love her so much, why isn't she my favourite character? I think that is because her being a great (the best) Slayer, a hero and a warrior makes her kind of difficult to relate to. Not that I can relate to, well, any of the characters, but the problem with Buffy is that, even though she's a good friend and a great person, she fights and always will fight alone, because no one can come close to her (or maybe she's afraid to let anyone come truly close). The Slayer fights alone, no matter how many friends she has to help her. And she knows this. For me the feeling the Scoobies often seem to have, that she doesn't really allow them to help her fight, or what ever, is emotionally easier to understand than her position.
This is not to say that everyone's behaviour in Empty Places is justified. It's understandable, but not justified, because time and again Buffy has proven that, how rash her actions may seem, she knows what she's doing, conciously or at least instinctively. But that's another discussion.

 

[white avenger]

(And this is the other half of my post that didn't get included because I pressed the "Post" button before I got finished, and I type too slowly to get the rest in under the time limit.)

So what, gentle viewers, does that have to do with why I DON'T like Buffy? Simple. Steel can't generate heat. It can only absorb the heat given to it. Buffy Summers can't love. She could only reflect the love given to her. Throughout the first six seasons and halfway into the third, she was ruled by one simple principal: It's the mission that matters. She couldn't love anyone enough to walk away, to be just Buffy and not the Slayer. She sent Angel to hell, she was ready to kill both Willow and Anya, and she even jumped off of Glory's tower, because of the mission.

It wasn't until halfway into the last season that Buffy Summers finally began to realize that there might possibly be something beyond being the Slayer, that white houses and non-picket fences MIGHT work be something that she could share with someone that she could love. Angel? Spike? Someone else? It really doesn't matter. Finally, she was beginning to really let herself imagine a time when the mission DIDN'T matter.

 

[Silum]

(And this is the other half of my post that didn't get included because I pressed the "Post" button before I got finished, and I type too slowly to get the rest in under the time limit.)

So what, gentle viewers, does that have to do with why I DON'T like Buffy? Simple. Steel can't generate heat. It can only absorb the heat given to it. Buffy Summers can't love. She could only reflect the love given to her. Throughout the first six seasons and halfway into the third, she was ruled by one simple principal: It's the mission that matters. She couldn't love anyone enough to walk away, to be just Buffy and not the Slayer. She sent Angel to hell, she was ready to kill both Willow and Anya, and she even jumped off of Glory's tower, because of the mission.

It wasn't until halfway into the last season that Buffy Summers finally began to realize that there might possibly be something beyond being the Slayer, that white houses and non-picket fences MIGHT work be something that she could share with someone that she could love. Angel? Spike? Someone else? It really doesn't matter. Finally, she was beginning to really let herself imagine a time when the mission DIDN'T matter.

Wow, thats....interesting. Though I love your analogy and its a great way to make your point, I still think its a pretty bold claim.

She jumped off the tower because that was the mission? What show were you watching! 😛

Buffy's love for her friends was immense, and still, that pales in comparison to Buffy's love for Dawn (who she sacrificed herself for). You could argue your case for Anya but Willow was about to destroy the world. And even before it got that bad, she was about to destroy herself (by killing more inocents)...it was Buffys love for willow that made her try to bring her back down. She wasn't fighting Willow for kicks.

And Buffys love for Angel and Spike had little to do with the mission and shouldnt be ignored if were talking about her ability to love. I do agree that by the end of the series, she was imagining a future, but the previous 6 seasons we got plenty of 'I just want a normal life!' talk.

Well, im throwing the whole not defending buffy clause right out the window haha

 

[white avenger]

Wow, thats....interesting. Though I love your analogy and its a great way to make your point, I still think its a pretty bold claim.

She jumped off the tower because that was the mission? What show were you watching! 😛

Buffy's love for her friends was immense, and still, that pales in comparison to Buffy's love for Dawn (who she sacrificed herself for). You could argue your case for Anya but Willow was about to destroy the world. And even before it got that bad, she was about to destroy herself (by killing more inocents)...it was Buffys love for willow that made her try to bring her back down. She wasn't fighting Willow for kicks.

And Buffys love for Angel and Spike had little to do with the mission and shouldnt be ignored if were talking about her ability to love. I do agree that by the end of the series, she was imagining a future, but the previous 6 seasons we got plenty of 'I just want a normal life!' talk.

Well, im throwing the whole not defending buffy clause right out the window haha

Buffy jumped off of that tower to save the world, and POSSIBLY (just my guess here) because that was part of the "protect and keep out of Glory's clutches at all costs" spell that the monks laid on her. The blood had begun to flow, the dimensional portal was opening, and there was no time for rational thought. Buffy did what the Slayer is conditioned and trained to do. She sacrificed herself to save the world. It could have been Willie the bartender up there, and she would have done exactly the same thing.

And she fought Willow to do exactly the same thing: save the world. If she could have killed her at that moment, thereby stopping the destruction of the world, she would have done it, even if it meant spending another summer in LA waiting tables and rescuing homeless people from hell dimensions.


As for all of the "I just want a normal life" crying in Season 6, if you recall, it wasn't until the last part of the final episode that she got over her lingering death wish and realized that there was something to look forward to. Everything before that in that season was just her feeling sorry for, hating, and punishing herself by taking out all of her frustrations on Spike.

 

[Silum]

Buffy jumped off of that tower to save the world, and POSSIBLY (just my guess here) because that was part of the "protect and keep out of Glory's clutches at all costs" spell that the monks laid on her. The blood had begun to flow, the dimensional portal was opening, and there was no time for rational thought. Buffy did what the Slayer is conditioned and trained to do. She sacrificed herself to save the world. It could have been Willie the bartender up there, and she would have done exactly the same thing.

Dawn could have jumped. Thereby satisfying your view of the slayer looking after the world first and foremost. Ive actually seen that argued here too that Buffy shouldnt have jumped because she was more important to the world.

I think your skewing facts to suit your purpose. Do you genuinely believe that Buffy didnt have an immense love for Dawn? Every single scene where people come up to her in distress...the very first words out her mouth are "Dawn! Is she ok?". Heck its how you could tell her from the buffybot apart.

And she fought Willow to do exactly the same thing: save the world. If she could have killed her at that moment, thereby stopping the destruction of the world, she would have done it, even if it meant spending another summer in LA waiting tables and rescuing homeless people from hell dimensions.

She fought willow initially to save her from herself as ive said. She didnt want her to kill the two boys cause then, she stepped even further past the line. She cared about Willow and even told her she didnt want to hurt her. After this, things went badly and she then wanted to destroy the world. Why use that as an example? Willow IS trying to destroy the world, as a loving friend would you still not expect Buffy to stop that? So Buffy lets Willow destroy the world THEN you'll accept that Buffy has the ability to love?

As for all of the "I just want a normal life" crying in Season 6, if you recall, it wasn't until the last part of the final episode that she got over her lingering death wish and realized that there was something to look forward to. Everything before that in that season was just her feeling sorry for, hating, and punishing herself by taking out all of her frustrations on Spike.

So you take S6 as an example where she was forced out of heaven to show that she was devoid of love? a) What about the other 5 seasons where she continually just wanted to be normal and b)S6 again showed that her love for Dawn was enough to bring her back. By the finale she wanted nothing more than to show Dawn just how beautiful the world is...wheres the mission in that?


I would even go as far to say that it is Buffy's love that makes her as unique as she is. Its what separates her from the long line of other slayers (Faith included) that do have a problem. Granted, all the forces are against Buffy being open to love but thats what makes her great in that she has friends who she loves and friends who love her. Something very unique for a slayer.

 

[Silum]

To further a bit of evidence on Buffy side (even if I dont agree with its meaning), I like what vampmogs wrote...

Buffy's my favourite character in the series, but she acted ridiculously in regards to Spike and the trigger. She had made no effort since 'Never Leave Me' to find out anything about the trigger and anytime anyone wanted to bring up the reality of the situation she became very dodgy and snappy towards them. In 'First Date' it's revealed the First has plans for Spike and she still refuses to let Spike leave town, not because of the mission but because, "(shes) not ready for him to not be here." She put her feelings above "the mission" contradicting her own mantra "the mission is what matters" and putting the lives of everyone she cared about at serious risk.

 

[Senior Partner]

Buffy HAS to be flawed in some way, it's in the character spec of any true super-hero. We wouldn't be tuning in every week if there wasn't something interesting to watch.

You don't have to love her to admire her, and you don't have to like the central hero to emotionally buy into the world of Sunnydale. These characters aren't black and white, and they don't operate in a black and white world. None of the characters have a squeaky clean record and I guess Buffy has more right than any of them to blot hers as she is the one to make the tough decisions. I can't say I really liked Buffy, but I did care about what happened to her and that's because she was the 'raison d'etre' for the show. No Slayer- show's over. Plus, if you ever needed a leader, who would you choose to fight with? The Scoobies were always a more cohesive group than Angel's subsequent gang, more forgiving of each other, more supportive, and utlimately more successful. A massive part of that is down to her leadership and her early ability to form strong friendships. As Joss Whedon said in his interview, she earned her right to a happy-ish ending. You gotta give the girl props for that, at least!

 

[Vampmogs2]

Buffy is my favourite character, I absolutely adore her. However, I agree she isn't without her flaws.

However I got to comment on this first...

So what, gentle viewers, does that have to do with why I DON'T like Buffy? Simple. Steel can't generate heat. It can only absorb the heat given to it. Buffy Summers can't love. She could only reflect the love given to her.

Doesn't that directly contradict what "˜Intervention' tells us? As the spirit guide tells her, she's filled with love, love so bright it burns which is why she has to pull back from it.

Throughout the first six seasons and halfway into the third, she was ruled by one simple principal: It's the mission that matters.

Huh? If that was the case she'd have let Willow die in "˜Choices' so she could destroy the Box of Gavrok and end the Mayor's plans for the Ascension. Or she'd have killed Angel in "˜Innocence' when she had the chance instead of being ruled by her heart. She would have killed Dawn in "˜Spiral' instead of declaring to fight for her no matter what even if it meant the death of everybody else. Buffy was all about love, I'd say if there's any season she became hardened it was season seven.

. She couldn't love anyone enough to walk away, to be just Buffy and not the Slayer. She sent Angel to hell, she was ready to kill both Willow and Anya, and she even jumped off of Glory's tower, because of the mission.

The spirit guide tells her "love will lead you to your gift." Her gift was "death" and what she did in "˜The Gift' by jumping off that tower. She jumped off that tower because she loved Dawn so much. "I love you, I will always love you."

Buffy sent Angel to hell because she's a good person, a hero. Despite her love for him, "I would have given up everything I had to be with him. I loved him more than I will ever love anything in this life and I put a sword through his heart because I had to." She couldn't let the entire world to be sucked into hell just for Angel, and I think it's kind of unfair to claim she couldn't love because she didn't do that.

It wasn't until halfway into the last season that Buffy Summers finally began to realize that there might possibly be something beyond being the Slayer, that white houses and non-picket fences MIGHT work be something that she could share with someone that she could love. Angel? Spike? Someone else? It really doesn't matter. Finally, she was beginning to really let herself imagine a time when the mission DIDN'T matter.

Personally I don't understand how one could come to that conclusion but I respect your opinion 🙂 It was season seven that Buffy said "the mission is what matters" in "˜Lies My Parents Told Me' which was only five episodes away from the series final. I don't really understand how you think season seven is the exception when it was that very season where Buffy started having that mantra in the first place?

I think Buffy's biggest flaw is her regression from 'Buffy VS Dracula' onwards. Buffy was at her healthiest in the first four seasons of the show and sadly lost a lot of that as the series progressed. She was so strong and inspirational in 'Restless' when she defied what the First Slayer expected her to be, "I am not alone. I shop, I sneeze, I'm going to be a fireman when the floods roll back. There's trees in the desert since you moved out and I don't sleep on a bed of bones. Now give me back my friends." Buffy lost that as the series progressed with characters like Dracula and Spike telling her she didn't belong in that world, that's when she started her whole "I'm alone" spiel when she clearly isn't alone. I think it turned a lot of people off her character. I hope season eight changes that once and for all, she was a healthier character when she understood her friends were her strength.

But I love Buffy, she's awesome!

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

What is it you don't like about the Buffy character?

Its a fairly simple question. I direct this mainly at those who consider other characters to be their favourite(most members) or those who have some objection to Buffy for whatever reason.

I ask this with an intention. I want to write an essay'type thing on the character of Buffy and why she IS the hero. How I come to that conclusion depends obviously on the counter argument.

The only thing I ask of this thread is that it not be a debate defending Buffy, since that will come later.

I love Buffy. It is true, though, that I cite Spike as my favorite character though - but that's only because Buffy is a given - I mean, she's the reason the whole show exists. (And I just have soft spot for Spikey)

Anyway. I think one of the reasons some ppl don't like the Buffster is because she has been known to make bad decisions. She is held to such a high standard (as a hero) that she cannot live up to it. After all, she's only human. People love to see their heroes fall. It's a given. What they love even more is watching them pick themselves back up. Heroes inspire people to be better people. And heroes with human vulnerabilites, who make mistakes, are even more desirable. Am I making sense?

Buffy has been known to be quite bitchy, selfish, and harsh at times. But I don't blame her. She has the world on her shoulders. All and all, she is a fascinating and complex character whom I could talk about for hours. Right now, I'm brain-dead and want to watch an ep of Smallville before I pass out. 😉

If you need anything else for your essay, I'm totally down to help. Just PM me 🙂

I am curious about this essay you are writing; is it for school? Fun?

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

I hate her stylish yet affordable shoes!

 

[PDH5204]

Please, can we not ignore words out of the character's own mouth:

"I love you. I will always love you.[and for the part omitted by the one soul, her immediately following words, and the use of "but" in the English language serves to qualify what you just said] But this is the work that I have to do."

She was doing her work and it was mission. The follow up provides the exclamation point:

Tell Giles...tell Giles I figured it out.

Figured what out? That she loves Dawn? Of course not. She already knew that and so she told Dawn that she loved her. She figured out what it means to be the slayer. And so, this is the work that I have to do.

And, Silum, to answer your question, which Buffy are we speaking of? The Buffy of seasons 1-6 or the Buffy of season 7? If you're including the latter, then the matter of hypocrisy rears its ugly head. The mission comes first. Right. Then please explain, you twit, your treatment of Faith on her return to Sunnydale. If I'd have been a potential, I'd have allowed the Buffster to take lead on patrol, then pulled the pin on a frag grenade, and then rolled it up behind her. And call it the fitting end for the one who thinks that lives can be expended "recklessly" [if somebody has to die, better the reckless one than the victim of her recklessness]. Bad end for a show, or this show, when at the end of season 7 I have far more love for Faith than for Buffy.

Lastly, and before I forget again, Anya wasn't otherwise the only one to give Buffy the word re her status, since back in season 4, Fear Itself:

Willow: Being the Slayer doesn’t automatically make you boss.

So it wasn't just Anya.

And flyonethewall, you here? Going back to Checkpoint, and the wrong vision of what it means to have power, the world operates on Mao's principle of all power coming from the end of the barrel of a gun. That One's power is instead in undergoing execution by torture and then resurrection. The superior power to kill isn't power. The power is in the superior power to give life, and such is selfless. Buffy didn't understand that in Checkpoint. By her own admission, she figured it out in The Gift.

 

[Tasha]

shes a bit moany.......

 

[BillyidolwannaB]

That she couldn't just admit she loved spike

 

[atticus]

I love Buffy, in all her whiny, woe is me, saving the world, never giving up glory. The only thing I don't like about Buffy is that she let a bunch of ungrateful friends kick her out of her own house, not only friends, but pathetic wannabe slayers. That's what I don't like about Buffy, also I don't like that she didn't kick the living sh*t out of that Rhona girl.

 

[MinwaraYana]

She didnt realize she loves Faith 😉

 

[Avalith]

Well, I loved Buffy when she was punning, kicking butt and taking names a few things wore on me about her.

I didn't like the angsty whirlpool that surrounded her all too often, maybe it's just me but she always seemed super wrapped up in her own problems.

I also didn't like the super bossy streak that she went on in Season 7.

 

[BillyidolwannaB]

I hated buffy in blood ties when shes saying to Joyce 'what is Dawn, shes not real, shes not my sister' or something like that and Dawn overhears and is rightly upset. I was like Well Done Buffy. 🙁

 

[Sweetescape]

Buffy was the one person I really had a hard time liking and caring about. She was just to moany and all "me,me,me" "I'm the slayer" yada,yada,yada. Season 7 really put the nail in the Buffy coffin for me all the long boring speeches which to be honest I glazed over when they were on the screen. Nothing made me really warm to her, some of the stuff she deserved. Always thinking she was right.

 

[Chosen 1]

I like Buffy, although she's not my favourite character I do like her, but at the same time I find her rather irritating, I think the main reason for this is she is far too self critical, which I find her biggest flaw. I actually think that her friends were completely out of order kicking her out in Empty Places, they were very critical of Buffy there, and I do think that things like that are the very reason that Buffy can be so critical of herself. Her friends always seem to be criticising her for one thing or another and I think this creates a rather negative impression of herself in her own mind.

While this, to me, is her biggest flaw (although a flaw which was kind of created in her by others) I think it is also the thing that makes her a hero and such a strong slayer. She is always looking to improve and make herself better in her own eyes and as a result she becomes stronger.

I hope that made some sense, it's weird how I only ever seem to stumble across really thought provoking threads at nearly 2am. XD