What is with 'the gay'?

[Blondie Bear]

What I find hilarious is how people keep trying to deny fundamental characteristics of our psychology. "No! Good people don't do stuff like that! Also, we're nothing like apes!" HA! I think we'll all be much happier when we admit that there are some things that just go along with being human and by trying to repress them, we're only hurting ourselves and our interactions.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

What I find hilarious is how people keep trying to deny fundamental characteristics of our psychology. "No! Good people don't do stuff like that! Also, we're nothing like apes!" HA! I think we'll all be much happier when we admit that there are some things that just go along with being human and by trying to repress them, we're only hurting ourselves and our interactions.

People will never admit it because as long as they believe that they don't do something that everyone else does, they believe themselves to be superior...and I would wager that is something else that is stuck there in the psyche, believing oneself to be better than someone else.

But here is the thing, true self understanding must bring you closer to a fuller, better self than denial and ignorance.

We ALL do the same things, some do it at differing levels, but we all do it.
People who say they don't bitch about people, I know they do.
People who believe that they are always honest, they're not.
Those who say the appreciate absolute honesty all the time, they don't.

I say I prefer people to be honest with me all the time, but thats a lie. Sometimes, and generally its the insignificant stuff, I like people to lie to me IF I've made a mistake - like over cooking something but you've spent all day doing it.

Labelling people is fundamental to us all, if we admit it or we don't, I have no problem with that, and that doesn't limit anyone but the person doing it.
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Keanoite agrees: Have we had a change of heart about honesty?

No, thats was a lie - well not quite.

I appreciate honesty on the big stuff, like our conversation and thats where I would always be honest BUT I would tell a lie on the little things and appreciate the lie too.

For example, I would lie to you if you made a piece of art that you were really proud of and spent time doing, should I not like it.
I would appreciate a lie told to me by a close friend after I had cooked a meal and they didn't like it.

The big stuff though, the stuff that has an impact on who you are, how you behave and what you do, thats where you have to be honest and thats where I appreciate total honesty.

 

[eponinethen]

Kali asked me to take a look at this thread. Wow. I don't know how to do this in English, lol.

Labels are a human thing, want a proof? A worldwild board and everybody use it.

The fact that we use labels isn't "proof" that they are "a human thing".

There are problems with labels and categories, people assume that these are "natural", that they're something you are. For example, people's sexual attractions are usually devided into three categories (gay, bi, straight). This makes people assume that everyone fits into one of these categories (for examle, take a look at any thread discussing Willow's sexuality). Identities are social constructs, they are "“ just like labels and categories "“ not natural. They are a way of organising people.

Many people say that categorizing helps people make sense of themselves and others. What they mean is that it simplifies people. Categories always exclude people, there are always people who don't fit in. And I have no intension of making things that simple for people.

At this point in the conversation I'm officially confused. Are we against labels, or looking for better labels?

I'm against labels, in theory. But defining our "identity" is something we won't just stop doing, therefor I think it is a good idea to constantly create new ways of doing this (one example is the "femme"/"fem" identity, which uses femininity in a queer/non-normative way). New words, new categories, more categories that are wider and identities that are harder to define, that challenge the ones people are getting way too comfortable with.

Categories also create norms. There are pretty much always hierarchies between categories (straight - not straight, male - not male, white - not white, etc.).

Calling someone a homophobe tells them that it's not okay to have a different opinion from the gay community. That it's not okay to be of a religion that dislikes homosexuality. A bit hypocritical, in my opinion, since gay people also don't want to be told that their opinions and inclinations are NOT OKAY.

How can you compare someone disliking me for something I do that doesn't affect them, and me pointing out that fact (and maybe disliking them for disliking me)? Does that mean you think being a racist and an anti-racist is the same thing too? Sexist and feminist?
According to your logic, anyone who is oppressed and thinks that their oppressor is wrong, is doing the same thing as the oppressor.

I still don't understand what you mean when you say that the boards have gotten quite "gay" recently.

 

[Uncle Rory]

For the artist's remarks thread I am kind of guilty for steering that thread into the "Sexual Orientation" direction. I notice that you used the word "Homophobic" and I'd have to say that if this site suffers from any ISM it would be "Straightophobic" Some folks just figure that it's OK to say any BS and as long as it only insults the "Straight, White Folk" there is no problem.

My philosophy is if you wouldn't want a particular mentality applied to your particular segment of society, don't apply it to any others yourself. It's all been said in the threads so I won't repeat the arguements. I am just surprised that after all the morality issues on Buffy and Angel that so many people didn't take more away with them from the show.

Uncle Rory