Gum Gnome33
"Well, yeah..."
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Messages
- 1,148
Or, more simply put, can a vampire be trained?
So we all know Spike's story well--some of us find it inspiring, and some of us wish it hadn't ever happened. But it did, nevertheless, and I think it should raise some questions. I'm wondering if a similar series of events transpired for a certain vampire as it did for Spike, if the result might be reformation. Now don't get me wrong, I think Spike is a champion through and through, but that is mostly because got himself a soul, voluntarily. I don't expect that is the kind of thing most creatures can do, and Spike is a hero for it.
But I'm not talking about all that. I'm talking about the adjustments and transformations he made while soulless in seasons 5 and 6. And I wonder if perhaps some other vampires can't do the same thing, *if the circumstances are right.*
Now, a lot of things need to come into place in order to consider this as a possibility. It doesn't literally have to happen as it did for Spike, but it needs to adhere to the same basic formula. First of all, I propose that the vampire in question must have been quite sensitive, loyal and emotionally charged as a human. Second of all he/she must have retained a lot of aspects of his/her humanity upon being turned. (In a demon, sensitive and loyal is obviously not quite the same as it is for humans, but it is illustrated well with Spike and Drusilla's relationship.) Then, some event needs to occur whereby the vampire is kept from harming others. He can no longer be influenced by other vampires in the same way that he was before, because essentially he is ostracized from their community.
If, at this point, a human were to take pity on said vampire, refuse to stake him, and even *feed* him, could a bond form? And if so, could the vampire start to feel loyalty toward the human who has taken pity on him, as more and more time passes in which he can no longer kill and is introduced to a part of society that is civil to one another, (well, as much as humans can be, anyway!) If the need to hunt and kill is taken away, and trust is introduced, does the demon inside start to perish?
Obviously, there are vampires who do not kill simply to feed and who did not have the necessary aspects of humanity in life that might result in this proposed change of "heart" as a demon. As it's been discussed repeatedly in the 'verse, Angelus and Darla are excellent examples, probably to the greatest degree. But it's been made clear that the individual personalities of vampires do reflect those of the people whose bodies they wear. It seems that in Buffy there are legitimate examples of the kill to eat variety of demon as well as the ones who massacre for pleasure. So if the formula is right...
I'm thinking specifically of the two vampires that Buffy and Spike encounter on their "late night stake out." They are eating popcorn when they are caught, and as soon as they see Buffy, they run away, clearly not interested in any trouble. Am I saying they're angels? No, geez. They had probably just killed for dinner. But is the potential there? That's my question. I wonder if the lack of soul in SOME vampires simply means no conscience; there is a need to kill to survive but no pure drive to do evil things. Whereas in others, the demon inside is more of the problem than the lack of a soul, and it needs to be killed off before any goodness can come in.
Does anybody have any thoughts on this? Do you think if a sequence of events occurred similar to those that Spike experienced, a vampire's inner demon could be kept at bay? And if you were the Slayer and you witnessed Spike's journey up to season 6 first hand, would you wonder what the potential for goodness was for any particular vampire, or would you stake away, choosing not to care? I don't believe either decision is wrong, but I think it's worth discussing.
So we all know Spike's story well--some of us find it inspiring, and some of us wish it hadn't ever happened. But it did, nevertheless, and I think it should raise some questions. I'm wondering if a similar series of events transpired for a certain vampire as it did for Spike, if the result might be reformation. Now don't get me wrong, I think Spike is a champion through and through, but that is mostly because got himself a soul, voluntarily. I don't expect that is the kind of thing most creatures can do, and Spike is a hero for it.
But I'm not talking about all that. I'm talking about the adjustments and transformations he made while soulless in seasons 5 and 6. And I wonder if perhaps some other vampires can't do the same thing, *if the circumstances are right.*
Now, a lot of things need to come into place in order to consider this as a possibility. It doesn't literally have to happen as it did for Spike, but it needs to adhere to the same basic formula. First of all, I propose that the vampire in question must have been quite sensitive, loyal and emotionally charged as a human. Second of all he/she must have retained a lot of aspects of his/her humanity upon being turned. (In a demon, sensitive and loyal is obviously not quite the same as it is for humans, but it is illustrated well with Spike and Drusilla's relationship.) Then, some event needs to occur whereby the vampire is kept from harming others. He can no longer be influenced by other vampires in the same way that he was before, because essentially he is ostracized from their community.
If, at this point, a human were to take pity on said vampire, refuse to stake him, and even *feed* him, could a bond form? And if so, could the vampire start to feel loyalty toward the human who has taken pity on him, as more and more time passes in which he can no longer kill and is introduced to a part of society that is civil to one another, (well, as much as humans can be, anyway!) If the need to hunt and kill is taken away, and trust is introduced, does the demon inside start to perish?
Obviously, there are vampires who do not kill simply to feed and who did not have the necessary aspects of humanity in life that might result in this proposed change of "heart" as a demon. As it's been discussed repeatedly in the 'verse, Angelus and Darla are excellent examples, probably to the greatest degree. But it's been made clear that the individual personalities of vampires do reflect those of the people whose bodies they wear. It seems that in Buffy there are legitimate examples of the kill to eat variety of demon as well as the ones who massacre for pleasure. So if the formula is right...
I'm thinking specifically of the two vampires that Buffy and Spike encounter on their "late night stake out." They are eating popcorn when they are caught, and as soon as they see Buffy, they run away, clearly not interested in any trouble. Am I saying they're angels? No, geez. They had probably just killed for dinner. But is the potential there? That's my question. I wonder if the lack of soul in SOME vampires simply means no conscience; there is a need to kill to survive but no pure drive to do evil things. Whereas in others, the demon inside is more of the problem than the lack of a soul, and it needs to be killed off before any goodness can come in.
Does anybody have any thoughts on this? Do you think if a sequence of events occurred similar to those that Spike experienced, a vampire's inner demon could be kept at bay? And if you were the Slayer and you witnessed Spike's journey up to season 6 first hand, would you wonder what the potential for goodness was for any particular vampire, or would you stake away, choosing not to care? I don't believe either decision is wrong, but I think it's worth discussing.
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