what was the purpose for Charisma leaving?

[Edmund Blackadder]

"The Girl In Question" - Joss wanted Michelle Tractenberg to be the one in the apartment, but they couldn't get her, so Andrew was used instead. Joss was pretty unhappy because apparently some of the stuff he wrote for Dawn was just given over to Andrew.

"A Hole In the World" - Giles was meant to meet Angel & Spike in the deeper well, but they couldn't afford Tony Head so they created Drogan.

"You're Welcome" - like I said was written for Buffy, but they couldn't get Sarah, so it was switched to Cordy.

They did actually want Buffy in TGIQ but she was only available during Powerplay/NFA but by the time Joss and co. were told this, TGIQ was already 'in the can'.

If Joss didn't like the fact Andrew said lines that were specifically written for Dawn, then maybe Joss should have been focused more on the last few episodes of the show?

If 'Angel' couldn't afford Tony Head then that casts doubt on ASH when he states he would dearly love to work with Joss again.
Surely he would have been able to negotiate a reasonable pay deal for the time on the show, especially considering ASH made a small fortune on Buffy and subsequent work.

Do you have any proper links for these comments or is it just hearsay?

 

[Skytteflickan88]

No doubt, up until the events of "No Future For You," Giles was the brain behind the New Watcher's Council, being the only real Watcher amongst them.

Maybe a few watcher's survived. Some might have been in the field. But I'm not surprised if they let Giles take chrage. After all, he did have a army of slayers at hand. Maybe they didn't dare to speak up. Besides, they would be pretty useless watcher if they didn't want to "watch".

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

Maybe a few watcher's survived. Some might have been in the field. But I'm not surprised if they let Giles take chrage. After all, he did have a army of slayers at hand. Maybe they didn't dare to speak up. Besides, they would be pretty useless watcher if they didn't want to "watch".

True, and we know Roger Wyndham-Pryce is around.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

Buffyverse Fan disagrees: could have asked a lot more nicely

What the [expletive deleted]?

Do you have any proper links for these comments or is it just hearsay?

How is there anything wrong in that question?
Do you have any proper links (and not links to other sites that make these claims) or is it just comments you've read on other sites?

How did you want me to ask?

Oh Buffyverse Fan, you seem to be the smartest, most enlightened person to ever grace us with their presence. Please, perchance, talk to us more and impart your wisdom and wouldst thou do me the greatest of honours and maybe give a link to the quotes of the cast/crew so that I can begin my quest to be as knowledgeable as you, if I dare?

Numpty!

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

Do you have any proper links for these comments or is it just hearsay?

What the [expletive deleted]?

Do you have any proper links for these comments or is it just hearsay?

How is there anything wrong in that question?
Do you have any proper links (and not links to other sites that make these claims) or is it just comments you've read on other sites?

How did you want me to ask?

Oh Buffyverse Fan, you seem to be the smartest, most enlightened person to ever grace us with their presence. Please, perchance, talk to us more and impart your wisdom and wouldst thou do me the greatest of honours and maybe give a link to the quotes of the cast/crew so that I can begin my quest to be as knowledgeable as you, if I dare?

Numpty!

You could have asked a lot more nicely... ::huh1::

They did actually want Buffy in TGIQ

Thanks for the correction, but I'll trust David Fury on this one (Producer of Angel).

INTERVIEWER: But wasn't there talk of her being in "The Girl in Question"?

DAVID FURY: There was very, very little talk about that. No, she was never going to be in that. The missed opportunity to see Buffy was always going to be the joke of that. It's the tease of, they're going to see Buffy, and they can't quite get to her. It's sort of the After Hours kind of craziness where it's like, I can't get to her, I can't see her, and that was always pretty much decided.

But, Sarah, no. We never expected Sarah to be in that episode (MEANWHILE Interviews... Buffy Post Mortem)

she [Sarah Gellar] was only available during Powerplay/NFA.

Again, I appreciate the correction, but I'll still have to believe David Fury on the issue who says that Sarah was unavailable during Powerplay & NFA (she was filming The Grudge).

DAVID FURY: We did think she might be in the second last episode, "Power Play", just like Angel appeared in the second last episode of Buffy's finale. We thought we'd do that but wound up not. (MEANWHILE Interviews... Buffy Post Mortem)

If Joss didn't like the fact Andrew said lines that were specifically written for Dawn, then maybe Joss should have been focused more on the last few episodes of the show?

He apologized for that... I forgive him, but I'm sure you could write him a letter of complaint...

JOSS WHEDON: the Andrew scene in "The Girl in Question" was a victim of me dropping the ball. [...] "The 'people change' thing is a hold-over from the fact that the scene was originally written for Dawn (but Michelle turned us down). The idea was, there's little Dawn, then in the last scene there's hot grown-up Dawn going out on the town, a heavy visual support of people changing (since Spike and Angel always see her as older brothers do)." (Whedonesque : Comments on 15286 : Ten Best Gay and Bisexual Science Fiction Characters.)

If 'Angel' couldn't afford Tony Head then that casts doubt on ASH when he states he would dearly love to work with Joss again.

Them not being able to afford Tony was because transporting and paying him for a smaller role would have cost a lot more than hiring a local small name actor. So, I don't think Tony Head was lying about wanting to work with Joss again, but you're free to your opinion.

Joss originally wanted to bring in Giles who would over answers of absolute on Fred's condition, but they couldn't afford to fly Anthony Head (Giles) back for the episode. The introduction of Drogan would allow the audience to believe what he would say, that Fred could not be saved.
(http://www.cityofangel.com/behindTheScenes/bts5/S5dvdReview1.html)

 

[Clem Rocks]

True, and we know Roger Wyndham-Pryce is around.

And Giles's friend who would have got his head lopped off by a Bringer if the Bringer didn't have squeaky shoes, i believe his name was Robson?

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

You could have asked a lot more nicely... ::huh1::


Thanks for the correction, but I'll trust David Fury on this one (Producer of Angel).

INTERVIEWER: But wasn't there talk of her being in "The Girl in Question"?

DAVID FURY: There was very, very little talk about that. No, she was never going to be in that. The missed opportunity to see Buffy was always going to be the joke of that. It's the tease of, they're going to see Buffy, and they can't quite get to her. It's sort of the After Hours kind of craziness where it's like, I can't get to her, I can't see her, and that was always pretty much decided.

But, Sarah, no. We never expected Sarah to be in that episode (MEANWHILE Interviews... Buffy Post Mortem)


Again, I appreciate the correction, but I'll still have to believe David Fury on the issue who says that Sarah was unavailable during Powerplay & NFA (she was filming The Grudge).

DAVID FURY: We did think she might be in the second last episode, "Power Play", just like Angel appeared in the second last episode of Buffy's finale. We thought we'd do that but wound up not. (MEANWHILE Interviews... Buffy Post Mortem)


He apologized for that... I forgive him, but I'm sure you could write him a letter of complaint...

JOSS WHEDON: the Andrew scene in "The Girl in Question" was a victim of me dropping the ball. [...] "The 'people change' thing is a hold-over from the fact that the scene was originally written for Dawn (but Michelle turned us down). The idea was, there's little Dawn, then in the last scene there's hot grown-up Dawn going out on the town, a heavy visual support of people changing (since Spike and Angel always see her as older brothers do)." (Whedonesque : Comments on 15286 : Ten Best Gay and Bisexual Science Fiction Characters.)



Them not being able to afford Tony was because transporting and paying him for a smaller role would have cost a lot more than hiring a local small name actor. So, I don't think Tony Head was lying about wanting to work with Joss again, but you're free to your opinion.

Joss originally wanted to bring in Giles who would over answers of absolute on Fred's condition, but they couldn't afford to fly Anthony Head (Giles) back for the episode. The introduction of Drogan would allow the audience to believe what he would say, that Fred could not be saved.
(http://www.cityofangel.com/behindTheScenes/bts5/S5dvdReview1.html)

Opps, I was one out. It was Powerplay that they wanted her and NFA that she was free for.
So, smartarse, thanks for the links but if you're going to try and be clever and out do someone, get all the facts.
I don't mind admitting I was off by an episode BUT I didn't make a big song and dance about it, you did.

So, thanks for the correction BUT I will take Jeffrey Bells word for it - I'm no as courteous as you, so you'll have to link yourself.

As for paying for Giles to be in the show as opposed to paying for Drogyn, with a reduced fee for a cameo, which is all Drogyn is at this point, air fares and hotel (or maybe even being put up in one of the actors/directors/writers/producers luxury mansions) would have equalled out as to something reasonable.

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

So, smartarse, thanks for the links but if you're going to try and be clever and out do someone, get all the facts.
(...)
As for paying for Giles to be in the show as opposed to paying for Drogyn, with a reduced fee for a cameo, which is all Drogyn is at this point, air fares and hotel (or maybe even being put up in one of the actors/directors/writers/producers luxury mansions) would have equalled out as to something reasonable.

If you feel that you are a more competent financial planner than whomever handles budgeting at Mutant Enemy, I urge you to write them a letter. However, personally, I believe that Fury, Whedon, Head, and whatever other parties that were involved, were sufficiently competent to make the call that bringing in Tony wouldn't have been financially viable. I really don't think that any of the parties were being duplicitous either, simply because they'd have no reason to be.

I don't know, but they screwed up Charisma story line. Big time.

heh, that's for sure 🙂

 

[Lou]

Interesting info BvF! Never read those interviews before.

But, we seem to be kinda running a few miles off topic and then there was is name calling, which is totally unnecessary. *glares*

We should probably move back to Cordy going away in S3.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

Blackadder, I might not agree with Buffyverse fan about you being rude when asking for links, but that does not mean that you should yell and swear.

Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean that you should be mean.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

Blackadder, I might not agree with Buffyverse fan about you being rude when asking for links, but that does not mean that you should yell and swear.

Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean that you should be mean.

Don't tell me how to behave, especially when you're incorrect.
Where did I swear and where did I yell.
[Expletive Deleted]?
Last time I checked either isn't a swear word.
Smartarse?
Not really fullfilling the criteria either as smartarse as its an idiom whose description is someone trying to be cleverer than someone else.

BvF did something that alot of people deem to be bad manners on this board in a situation that didn't call for it, so I called him on it.


As for your last comment BvF.
If the very well paid actor ASH and the very well paid director JW and the very well paid writer/producer DF couldn't arrange something so that ASH could be in the show for a one off cameo, especiallys he visits LA a fair bit according to many interviews, one with Johnathan Ross comes to mind on BBC Radio 2 where he said he still owns a property in LA, then the finance dept could find a way, if ASH was really that keen to work with Joss as much as he often says he is.

I don't think he is, I think ASH likes the idea of working with Joss again because of Ripper and NOT because its Joss but because it would be him as the star of the show.

 

[Kean]

Right, guys you know the score. Back off...now. This threads sole purpose is to speak about Charisma leaving Angel. Not for you all to bicker and call each other names. You are ruining the thread for the rest of the board. If you have a problem with each other do one of three things a) ignore one another b) work out your differences in private or c) contact a mod.

A mod has already instructed you to remain on topic and that was ignored. If there is any continued off topic posts I'll close the thread.

Carry on with the discussion of Charisma and her leaving.

 

[atticus]

Alrighty, back to basics. I'm sure there was an actual reason involving Charisma in real life. Be it wedding, family stuff, maybe just a break. But all though i missed her, i think it worked well, to progress the Wesley/Connor storyline. Wesley could not go to Angel, because he felt that Angel was slipping away, and would hurt Connor. But, I think he would have told Cordelia. She is well aware of Angelus, and he'd look for her support, plus she's a friend, and would listen. He'd want her opinion. Which i'm sure would not have involved Holtz. Be interesting to see, how things would have played out.

 

[marukisu2]

Why did they make Charisma leave in that season.

There was a point in season 3 where Cordy left with Groo on vacation, but as far as writing goes it just felt so forced. Was there any specific reason for Charisma leaving.

 

[Revolver]

As I recall, Charisma requested time off from the series.

 

[Big Damn Hero]

Although it would have been better if Charisma/Cordy was still in it, I think it adds to the plot more than it takes away from it.

Firstly, there's the whole "Who can Wesley talk to?" bit. Can't talk to Gunn/Fred because of his feelings for Fred. Can't talk to Angel because he's not likely to give a non-biased opinion on the whole thing. The only other sounding board (and probably the most level headed person) is then gone.

& secondly, and less importantly, Angel "makes" (and I use that term loosely) Cordy go away with Gru because he wants her to be happy but can't stand to have her in the office every day once she's got the potion & is kumshuking (or however you spell it!) like a rabbit with Gru.

My 2p 🙂

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

As I recall, Charisma requested time off from the series.

She wanted maternity/parental leave, but she wanted to stay on for S5, just in about 75% of the eps. retaining a full-time billing & salary. Joss didn't think her demands were fair, so they parted ways.

Charisma did some European interview that's on YouTube where she talks about it.