What You Don't Like

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I can never reconcile the scene in Seeing Red with my love for Spuffy. It's like an uncomfortable little nagging in the back of my head even when I try not to think about it. I love them, and I understand how different he became after he got his soul, but it still makes me question sometimes whether or not they should really end up together.

Wow, that totally felt like a true confession.

I know how you feel. It's very difficult for me, and I go back and forth on how I feel about it - not only because of my unflagging and obsessively ardent devotion for this 'ship, but also because Spike is my favorite character ever. It's hard to reconcile. But I always tell myself that there IS a different between no soul and post soul Spike. All I know is how awful Spike felt about it, and if it hadn't happened, he wouldn't be who he is today.

Actually, my least favorite Spuffy moment was in Beneath You. Not the church scene, but when the gang was at the Bronze. After Spike and Anya got into a fight and Buffy said, "You haven't changed Spike," they throw some punches, and Spike later says, "I guess this will be first contact since you know when." Is he referring to the AR scene? Because if he is, I really hate that, since he has his soul now. I then sometimes think he's referring to the balcony scene in Dead Things because he then says, "Up for another round on the balcony then?" But, they had "contact" after that, so I then think he's not. Either way, I just think the line is really out of place, considering how far he has come until that point.

I never noticed that line before. Hmm. If Spike was indeed referring to the AR...that would be very tactless and OOC. No wonder Buffy punched him. Who wrote that episode, anyway?

*googles*

Ah, so it was Petrie. Of course. He notoriously writes Spike OOC, so I'm not surprised.

 

[StarSlayer]

I never noticed that line before. Hmm. If Spike was indeed referring to the AR...that would be very tactless and OOC. No wonder Buffy punched him. Who wrote that episode, anyway?

*googles*

Ah, so it was Petrie. Of course. He notoriously writes Spike OOC, so I'm not surprised.

That explains so much actually. I think I'll just choose to ignore that line now, lol!

 

[Tranquillity]

See I don't mind the line because at that point in the story Spike is actively trying to hide the truth from Buffy about his soul. He deliberately says something that will distract her from pushing to know what Anya was talking about. Because didn't you notice that for a moment Buffy was in danger of being completely distracted from the giant worm problem because she wanted to know what Anya was talking about. The last thing Spike wants is for Buffy to know about the soul so he goes through the charade, goes back to being season 2 Spike just to put her off.

 

[riceballalien]

I pretty much like everything about their relationship. The one thing I love and hate the most about their relationship is that it is a very grown up relationship. It is real, full of emotion, and truly heart wrenching. Like love is, I think that is why I don't like Bangel...to..unrealistic.

I obviously don't like the AR or the lack of development in Season 8.

 

[caitaintdead]

Actually, the scene in Dead Things can make me feel more uncomfortable then the AR most of the time. It really is so brutal, and Spike gets so horribly beaten up 🙁 Not a nice scene at all.

I've often wondered what the story was behind the Spike Doctor line... It seemed poorly written to me. Was it included purely to break them up? Or to remind us that he's evil, thus preparing us for the AR? I've heard some interesting fan theories, but none of them sit right with me. Does it ever get bought up again in the comics and explained?

 

[StarSlayer]

I've often wondered what the story was behind the Spike Doctor line... It seemed poorly written to me. Was it included purely to break them up? Or to remind us that he's evil, thus preparing us for the AR? I've heard some interesting fan theories, but none of them sit right with me. Does it ever get bought up again in the comics and explained?

I don't know if it was ever brought up in the comics, but always thought it was to remind us that he was evil and did evil things. Buffy seemed to have forgotten that, as she told him later. "That's just you. I should have remembered." But, I agree. I thought it could have been written better.

 

[Tranquillity]

Oh yes, As you Were is an episode with many holes in it - I get what they were trying to do (remind us that Spike was still capital-E Evil as StarSlayer said) but it was just doen so badly!!

 

[Buffanator]

I love Spuffy so much, I had to think until my brains hurt to come up with something I *didn't* like about it...and finally, I remembered...

"I love you."

"No you don't, but thanks for saying it."

ARGH! - I really think they could have written a better line for Spike to say to Buffy as he was sacrificing himself for the world!

 

[Summerlilly]

I pretty much like everything about their relationship. The one thing I love and hate the most about their relationship is that it is a very grown up relationship. It is real, full of emotion, and truly heart wrenching. Like love is, I think that is why I don't like Bangel...to..unrealistic.

I obviously don't like the AR or the lack of development in Season 8.

Yes, but arn't all of Buffy's relationships real, full of emotion, and truly heart wrenching....even with Angel? Maybe that's why I'm such a big Bangel fan....because I want to believe that it isn't unrealistic.... but that's another discussion.

Spike is my favorite character but I've always been on the fence about Spuffy. Yes, they do have a special relationship, very complicated and multilayered based more on friendship that her other lovers and he really was there for her in the end. The part I keep getting stuck on is that at times it was so abusive. I mean, they treated each other like shit a lot of the time and were pretty much ashamed to say they really loved the other person. I know they went through a lot together and it brought them closer but how healthy was it through the majority of the show?

 

[StarSlayer]

Spike is my favorite character but I've always been on the fence about Spuffy. Yes, they do have a special relationship, very complicated and multilayered based more on friendship that her other lovers and he really was there for her in the end. The part I keep getting stuck on is that at times it was so abusive. I mean, they treated each other like shit a lot of the time and were pretty much ashamed to say they really loved the other person. I know they went through a lot together and it brought them closer but how healthy was it through the majority of the show?

For me and other Spuffies, we really look at their relationship as a journey 🙂 Yes, their relationship had abusive moments , especially in s6. But, at the same time, it had such subtle beauty throughout the series. Plus, despite the abusive nature of their relationship at times, s7 shows a complete 180 of that. After everything they've gone through, they still find comfort and support in each other, and find it difficult to say what they're truly feeling. Both of them can be such strong fighters, but when it comes to expressing their feelings, they can be so afraid.

 

[Buffanator]

I've always been on the fence about Spuffy. Yes, they do have a special relationship, very complicated and multilayered based more on friendship that her other lovers and he really was there for her in the end. The part I keep getting stuck on is that at times it was so abusive. I mean, they treated each other like shit a lot of the time and were pretty much ashamed to say they really loved the other person. I know they went through a lot together and it brought them closer but how healthy was it through the majority of the show?

I always thought the point of the Spuffy relationship is that it wasn't "healthy" - it was passionate & wild & twisted... and sometimes, that is what love is like. Not always "healthy" (and healthy is never as fun, 😉 )

 

[Summerlilly]

I always thought the point of the Spuffy relationship is that it wasn't "healthy" - it was passionate & wild & twisted... and sometimes, that is what love is like. Not always "healthy" (and healthy is never as fun, 😉 )

Very true. I've certainely experienced more of a Spuffy like relationship....but wished it could be more Bangel like (minus the can't be together part). Unhealthy is not actually fun but it sure does make for good tv!

 

[BananaBuffy]

See, seriously there isn't too much that bugs me about the Buffy/Spike relationship because I get it. If some of it hadn't happened them it wouldn't have been right. It all HAD to happen and so I have found it in myself not to find any of it irksome or irritating or any of that. Because I understand and couldn't live without any of it.

That aside, however. Nobody seems to like the AR scene, niether do I really but it was an important moment. Spike realizing what he has become...kind of and a big climax to the relationship that sends him away and ulitimately lands him with a soul that turns him...insane. So, I find I can watch that scene without cringing. Although I have been known to turn the volume down a bit because I have my TV quite loud when I'm watching Buffy but when that scene comes..I kind of reach for the remote to down her screams and yells a bit.

Another thing that has been previously mentioned is the BuffyBot. It's a somewhat odd and creepy part of the relationship. I understand what drove Spike to get it created but it still creeps me out a little bit, ya know? It's just that kind of thing.

 

[Litheran]

The only thing I don't like about Spuffy is the creators and writers underestimating how popular they would be together.

The Svulte eggs and the AR were both put in because it was all they could think of to separate them.

Spike holding the eggs was most likely a scheme to make spare cash to help out Buffy.

There is no way you could convince me that Spike would attack Buffy like that; especially after how considerate he was at Xander and Anya's not a wedding.

Putting that scene in is akin to having Michael Landon from Little House full on drop kick half-pint in the mother trucking face!

 

[dan k]

The only thing I don't like about Spuffy is the creators and writers underestimating how popular they would be together.

The Svulte eggs and the AR were both put in because it was all they could think of to separate them.

Spike holding the eggs was most likely a scheme to make spare cash to help out Buffy.

There is no way you could convince me that Spike would attack Buffy like that; especially after how considerate he was at Xander and Anya's not a wedding.

Putting that scene in is akin to having Michael Landon from Little House full on drop kick half-pint in the mother trucking face!

He kept the eggs for a friend, i didn't think it was his intention to use them to hurt Buffy.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

The Svulte eggs and the AR were both put in because it was all they could think of to separate them.

Amen, brother. You have no idea how much 'As You Were' enrages me. It's a terrible episode written by a writer who clearly does not understand Spike and Buffy. I hate this ep almost as much as I hate "Inside Out" in AtS.

I don't doubt Spike was keeping the eggs to sell for money for Buff, but it's ridiculous to say he was the Doctor. *snickers* Spike? Running an international demon eggs operation? Yeah, right. You have no idea how much we've argued about this issue on the boards, lol. Until we were blue in the face.

As for the AR...*sigh* How much I wish that horrible scene hadn't happened.

There is no way you could convince me that Spike would attack Buffy like that; especially after how considerate he was at Xander and Anya's not a wedding.

It was the worst kind of character un-development I've seen in the show, true. We all know why the writers did it; they were concerned that they had written Spike too sympathetic, and wanted to show that Spike was still a "monster." The entire scene was catastrophically badly executed, not to mention unbelievable for Buffy, even in her condition. Buffy has never been made a victim, as she says to Faith in "Sanctuary." Not before this. Trying to make her one by the hands of her former lover (and a hugely popular character) not only spits on her status as a feminist role model, but also insults the fans. Are we supposed to actually believe that Spike would actually do that, after how far he'd come? Come, on.

Some fans don't like season 6 because they think the characters acted immaturely or digressed from their development in the previous season. In Spike's case, I agree with that sentiment

That said, the writers needed a reason for Spike to seek out a soul. Something so awful had to happen that his guilt would overwhelm him. The AR certainly did the trick, now didn't it?