What's So Great About Innocence?

The Ferg

The Ferg

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I don't understand. I do like the episode, but it's in no way the greatest. For example, some people say things like:

"Then I watched Innocence, and I was hooked." or
"Innocence has got to be the greatest episode of all time."

I just don't get it. What's so great about it? Admittedly, it's one of the best, but not the greatest or even in the top 20 in my opinion. So, what do you guys like about it so much?
 
innocence in many ways could be considered as when the show really began to get great, up until then it was playing it safe we had the vampires, minor demons, some friendly crushes and highschools dramas and then boom buffy and angel sleep together and its hello angelus it really is a classic turning point in the show and then theres the start of oz and willow, i love it
 
Well, it would be boring if we all liked the exact same episodes, right?

Some comments and facts about "Innocence":

1.) That rocket launcher thing is just rad.

2.) I just love Angelus. He is delightfully scary and evil. Any episode with him is pretty cool in my book.

3.) In the commentary, when Joss Whedon is asked about his decision to turn Angel evil, he said that he feels it was necessary to keep the story fresh as viewers would quickly become bored with Angel's and Buffy's relationship. Although the fan base wanted Buffy and Angel to be together romantically, Whedon says, "What people want is not what they need."

4.) Joss has listed this as his favorite episode.

5.) This episode was the highest rated episode of Buffy ever.

Here's a neat page with some facts about "Innocence" on it.The Buffy and Angel Trivia Guide
 
I think it was really the turning point for the show. Up until the Surprise/Innocence two-parter, the show was really just "oh, look what wacky situation the gang is getting into this week!" After Innocence, not only did we realize that Buffy could be a serious drama, but also that none of the main characters are safe. Plus, it was just SO well-written and acted.
 
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Fake Shemp
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For me, personally, I just loved that turning point in the Buffy and Angel relationship. It was a tragic romance and really fulfilled it's starcrossed lovers theme. That episode did so many things in such a short time that I think previously shows had only ever done in a season. In one hour we have a deeply-in-love couple broken up, a good guy turned super evil, a new relationship started, a secret revealed about a good guy, a rocket launcher....and then the episode ends in as simple way as the show first began yet doesn't seem to be a fizzle ending at all. It is pure mastery of TV in my opinion....and I love and indulge in every minute of it.

It will always be my joint favorite episode because for me it's classic Buffy. Dark, disturbing yet nice and sweet. But then I'm a sucker for romance. tragedy and family stuff. And it gave it me all! Haha.
 
Innocence was fantastic. The first episode that showed completely true, raw, authentic human emotion throughout. It's significant because of the great performances, and how it completely shifted season 2 (and the show in general) into much darker territory.
 
I think for me, it's just all about the rocket launcher. It's the one weapon of choice that clearly sticks out in my head as fabulous!!!
 
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Fake Shemp
[No message]
^ Very true. I also really love how Buffy brought it back to dispose of Principal Wood. God, I love that scene. 😀
 
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Fake Shemp
me too that whole scene is so funny
J
Joyce Summers
Oh yeah- I love that! Though it made me wonder where she KEPT it all those years? Just propped up in the basement?
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Sitting in the back of the magic shop with the Buffybot?
B
BillyidolwannaB
I dont understand. To 'dispose of principle wood' ? ? Wth?
Innocence, I think, is what the show was really intended to be about. in at least the first 3 seasons the show was about high school and fighting your "demons" one of the biggest demons in high school is that of the b/f g/f relationship. in this episode it really comes through that sig others are important. also in this ep it has the WONDERFUL speech by Giles at the end which really signifies the watches/slayer relationship. it also has the rocket launcher and they did a wonderful job building that up. the ep showed the whittyness and the comedy as well as the drama and depression that the show really captures. the same thing can be said about OMWF or Grave from Season 6.
 
Its one of my favourites :ufo: I think it is mainly due to Angel suddenly becoming Angelus, what a shock. The rocket launcher was cool too. Willow finally discovered Cordy and xanders romance. Giles discovers Jennys real identity. It's also a really emotional episode. A real turning point for the show aswell i think, the show got darker from this episode and more daring.

I just LOVE IT!! Infact I just love season 2
 
The Ferg agrees: HEY BACK OFF!!! 😛 Have you ever thought you might be the insane one? 🙂 Also, I probs didn't like Grad. Day because I watched it about 9 years after it originally aired, so I kinda found the the snake to be really crappy... Part 1 was great! 🙂
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But the show is totally not about special effects at all...ALL the special effects were bad. If that was enough to hurt your enjoyment of the episode you need to re-evaluate things! 😀
 
PurplePoof said:
Well, with all due respect, you DID think Grave was better than Graduation Day and Restless...so you're bound to be a LITTLE nuts. 😀

😉
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You thought "GRAVE" was better than "RESTLESS"?? oh my...you must be stopped.

I personally don't think of "Innocence" as one of my favorites, but I see it's appeal. I think it's crazy that Joss says it's his favorite, but like everyone was saying, it was kind of the episode that established Buffy....after that, it became less monster-of-the week campy and more emotional. Plus SMG's tears are sooooooo touching...and Angelus is such a d**k!
There are some really beautiful moments like...
-when Xander and Willow are all "we're gonna save Buffy!!!" (if that happened in season 8, they may have had a shot)
-the love scene was really nicely done...."tasteful", they'd say.
-the graveyard dream was so cool! probably my favorite moment of the episode.
-Willow in danger...emotionally or physically...always makes for a good Buffy episode.
-The rocket launcher was sooo cool!
-the ending with the old movie and the candlelight cupcake...the black & white movie really captured Buffy & Angel perfectly. that's how they were portrayed for awhile....this classic, black & white couple just dancing with each-other....and smash, they slept together and it all ended.

Yeah, it's a good episode...but I think "Passion" and "Becoming pt. 2" win me over for my favorite season 2 episodes.
 
For the record, it WAS The Ferg who thought Grave was better than Restless...just wanted to clarify should someone read that you quoted me and mistakenly believe that I'M the lunatic...😀
 
I don't understand. I do like the episode, but it's in no way the greatest. For example, some people say things like:

"Then I watched Innocence, and I was hooked." or
"Innocence has got to be the greatest episode of all time."

I just don't get it. What's so great about it? Admittedly, it's one of the best, but not the greatest or even in the top 20 in my opinion. So, what do you guys like about it so much?
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I think it's overrated. I especially found Angel's transformation into Angelus rather disappointing. Almost anti-climatic.
 
Oh people. You are killing me inside, all of you. Well most of all of you. I am sorry but as a total Bangel I have to say that this particular episode is a delight because they finally bang which always makes the nympho inside of me happy. I loved that he got all evil just like most guys do when you finally give up the good. It was great. I could watch that epidose over and over and over. I love him evil additionally. He can change me up and torture me any time he wants.
 
The part that touches me the most is when Buffy answers her mom at the end by simply saying 'I'll just watch it burn'. I looove that whole scene. I still cry when I see it sometimes. 🙂
 
Favorite Part

My favorite part of this episode is when Angelus just trashes Buffy's lovemaking skills before walking out of her bedroom. The acting is great on both sides, but especially Buffy's extremely shocked and hurt expression. I think this is also perhaps Angelus at one of his most evil moments. It's one thing to insult someone who hates you or just likes you, but for someone to give you their heart and then you just crush it -- very cruel.
 
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