What's So Great About Innocence?

Kanazaka said:
My favorite part of this episode is when Angelus just trashes Buffy's lovemaking skills before walking out of her bedroom. The acting is great on both sides, but especially Buffy's extremely shocked and hurt expression. I think this is also perhaps Angelus at one of his most evil moments. It's one thing to insult someone who hates you or just likes you, but for someone to give you their heart and then you just crush it -- very cruel.
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my heart broke for Buffy while watching this episode.

especially the scene with her curled up on her bed cryin her eyes out.
 
I think the biggest reason that people, girls especially, like this episode is because it is a topic that some of them can relate to. They have gone through the horror of the having sex with their boyfriends or girlfriends for the first time only to have them not call or turn into a monster. Joss Whedon himself commented that a girl actually told him that is what happen to her. I think the same could be true for anyone and their first sexual partner. When you can relate to it, it is hard not love it.

I personally like the this episode because of Giles speech to Buffy at the end. Giles goes aganist the typical father figure role in the show by refusing to make Buffy feel guilty. Most TV father figures, and mother figures for that matter, would have just freaked out on her and give the "what where you thinking" speech and he didn't. It was very refreshing and made me respect Joss Whedon's vision as the creator of the show.
 
I totally agree that innocnce doesnt even register on my list of top episodes. It has a nice boom, some outside the box thinking but its not a great show.

That said, I can totally see why people like the episode and cite it for making them realize Buffy is a great show...Angel turning into Angelus is simply brilliant. And Buffys reaction is brilliant. It doesn't make for a top episode, but it shows us why Buffy is such a great show... which is probably its writing.
 
it's not the best episode, but it was good at the time,(very first time watching it)
 
I love it, its hard to think of a better Buffy and Angelus episode. Def a contender for best Buffy ep ever, but i think Fool for Love would have something to say about that 😉
 
Silum said:
That said, I can totally see why people like the episode and cite it for making them realize Buffy is a great show...Angel turning into Angelus is simply brilliant. And Buffys reaction is brilliant.
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It's a very interesting turn. Of course, by now we all know what Joss thinks of "happy ever after", and should be prepared for seemingly classic romances to take a bad turn, but when it was first aired it was a jarring take on the often told story where the heroine falls in love with the deep and dark hero. (Yeah , yeah, I know I'm repeating myself. I think the standard, "Pride&Predjudice"-type romance an interesting topic.)
 
To me it's not the damn best episode in the history of episodes. I'm kinda sadistic and seeing Buffy realizing that Happily Ever After only happens in fairy tales makes me smile a little. She was getting a little too cocky imo. "Look at me, I'm the slayer, I have superpowers and a hot boyfriend who happens to be a vampire. Someone I should have slayed long ago, but I love him."

OK so everything wasn't all dandy in Buffy's life, but she needed a real wake up call. Also I kinda think Angel turning into Angelus is like a metaphor. You sleep with a nice guy, and you wake up with an asshole. Buffy was dating a vampire, which is against everything that is the Slayer. The episode was not an overly 10 but I'll give it a 8.9 because of sad Buffy.
Slayer in pain = Viewers
 
Sunnydale Siren said:
my heart broke for Buffy while watching this episode.

especially the scene with her curled up on her bed cryin her eyes out.
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Agh, when Buffy does that, part of my insides curls up and cries with her. Seriously. It's an intense scene.

SMG even said that she felt really down during these episodes, because it was so hard to separate Buffy's pain from herself. And I can imagine.

To me, it wasn't just a metaphor for your first sexual partner turning into a jerk after you sleep with him (though I know that was supposed to be the primary message). I see the whole Angel to Angelus thing as Buffy's boyfriend dying, because that's what basically happened. So when she cries like that, I see someone whose loved one just passed, and that's why it reaches out to me so much.
 
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BillyidolwannaB
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fly on the wall said:
To me, it wasn't just a metaphor for your first sexual partner turning into a jerk after you sleep with him (though I know that was supposed to be the primary message). I see the whole Angel to Angelus thing as Buffy's boyfriend dying, because that's what basically happened. So when she cries like that, I see someone whose loved one just passed, and that's why it reaches out to me so much.
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I agree with this. I think that is how a lot of people feel when this happens. The man or woman they knew has dyed and what is left is a jerk.
 
PurplePoof said:
Well, with all due respect, you DID think Grave was better than Graduation Day and Restless...so you're bound to be a LITTLE nuts. 😀

😉
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I guess I am nuts to too because I like Grave better than Graduation Day. I love GD for nostaglia's sake but it isn't one of the best season finales in my opinion! I watched it 8 years later and the that horrid snake is distracting! When Willow is trying to destory the world those effects are amazing!
 
The Ferg said:
I don't understand. I do like the episode, but it's in no way the greatest. For example, some people say things like:

"Then I watched Innocence, and I was hooked." or
"Innocence has got to be the greatest episode of all time."

I just don't get it. What's so great about it? Admittedly, it's one of the best, but not the greatest or even in the top 20 in my opinion. So, what do you guys like about it so much?
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"Innocence" was designed to be a hook episode. The network and Joss' team designed it as such because they were jumping timeslots and they needed an episode that would make people tune into the new night.
 
The Ferg, I am right there with you. But here's the problem for me. I'm a Spielberg fan. Innocence and Passion are two episodes I have a lot of trouble watching because they're just so dark. And I always end up skipping The Body as well. So as I know it's a pretty epic piece to the Buffy puzzle, I would never hook some one with that episode. Rather I'd try something like "Halloween" or "Bewitched, Bothered & Bewildered." Innocence is just one of those dark episodes that makes me feel pretty bad after watching it. I'll never forget watching that episode on Fox with my father and how crazy he thought the show was. Little did he realize how monumental an episode it was to the grand scope of the new realm of television.
 
It's classic Buffy. Twist out of left field. This was what Joss wanted from the start after this was resolved the show had to reeinvent itself.
 
As many have said, it was a turning point and brought about an enemy that was the first to emotionally challenge Buffy in a way that any other villian did not have the ability to do. This is because Angel and Buffy shared something that is the ultimate bond between a couple, the ultimate force of love, and it turned into the complete opposite of what it should have given them. It was emotional and it made the series particularly dark after that. When the hero is weak, the audience wants to see how he or she will overcome it, and I think we all wanted to see how Buffy would defeat Angelus. Also, I agree with Joan the Vampire Slayer, Angelus is very entertaining and evil. I love his wit, too!
 
Innocence is an important episode. Buffy is aware that Angel is a vampire, however, She has no idea that sleeping with him will give him one moment of true happiness, Which will then take away his soul, and bring forth Angelus. Angel was Buffy's first true love, and her first true heartbreak. I agree with Joss. When people get what they want, They tend to lose interest. So he took the alternative route. He decided that instead of letting Buffy and Angel live happily ever after, That he would bring some violence, and some action into the relationship.

I think one of the reasons that I really love this episode is because Buffy's relationship with Angel, and Angels "condition" is a metaphor for real relationship issues. Alot of time men who aren't interested in being in a long term relationship try to get into a girls pants as quickly as possible, and then poof, Their off like a genie out of a lamp. It's sad, and pathetic, But unfortunatly it happens. Also, Sometimes men are only into girls until they sleep with them. Then they lose their interested. After writing this, I'm really glad I'm a girl, Guys are so complicated! =D
 
Umm I think that's because of the Bangel fans.There are so many of us and that is big turning point for Buffy and Angel.That is beautiful episode,their sex scene is so well done,it's not to sexy is beautiful full of love and when someone said Buffy and Angel people remember that.Buffy have so many great episodes and I do not have favourite one.I just can't decide.But Innocence is one of my favourite 100%
 
Buffy Summers
Buffy Summers
Nice answer :)
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