What's up with Spike (and Buffy)?

[thetopher]

A lot of criticism? Because Spike's actions aren't in any way criticised, never

Not in this case. Angel got slammed by Spike fans on other boards for 'being petty' whilst it was all 'It wasn't Spike's fault he attacked Buffy'- so which is it because it can't be both. Anyway, OT.

Spike was influenced by Archaeus to kill the Slayer (it was his thing in the past), Angel was influenced to kill Spike out of jealousy he was feeling at that moment - it wasn't the vampires's fault.

Again the targets where 'girl I love' and 'guy I don't like' so why is Angel at fault and Spike not a tfault?

Angel can be right or wrong about what he said to Willow, he is intitled to feel jealous over Buffy, he is intitled to have his opinion - but the fact that he spoke it out loud was petty.

I would agree that it was petty if Angel had said it to Buffy or Spike but he didn't, he was talking with Willow as he walked away from the whole thing. He shared his thoughts because Willow asked if he was okay- he answered.

And it wasn't just the conversation- the entire issue before with all that sewer talk- it was all illustrating about how little Angel and Spike have changed relative to the people around them. Angel is still a lonely brooder and Spike is still all about the girl (as they both have for the past 100 years or so). Look at any other character- from Bufyf herself to Willow to Giles and how much they've changed in a decade- far more than those immortal guys.


We'll see if anything comes of it but I highly doubt that Angel's prediction won't be proved accurate in some way- see a forth-coming issue about Spike 'questioning' his relationship with the slayer, the hints about how there's more to the book than all that we've been shown, and the fact that there's going to be some sort of split in the group by the end of the season.

By the way 'Buffy dating a human' doesn't nessesarily mean Riley mark 2. Just like 'dating a vampire' means that Angel and Spike are interchangable- that's where your logic leads.
New means new- as in fresh, as in no more tired storylines that completely ignore the plot points of the show and then fails to come up with anything new or interesting.

 

[gite63]

Not in this case. Angel got slammed by Spike fans on other boards for 'being petty' whilst it was all 'It wasn't Spike's fault he attacked Buffy'- so which is it because it can't be both.

Again the targets where 'girl I love' and 'guy I don't like' so why is Angel at fault and Spike not a tfault?

BOTH vampires are totally blameless - they were being controlled by Archaeus. What I think is that Angel said what he said to Willow out of jealousy - something quite natural, it's "human" nature, it's not a crime or anything. But it's petty.

He shared his thoughts because Willow asked if he was okay- he answered.

"It'll ever last" is something that he probably is repeating in his mind since he saw Buffy and Spike holding hands; Spike would feel the same way. He wasn't OK - remember the conversation with Faith? If he is still in love with Buffy, or if it's just a thing that he can't let it go yet, I don't know, but he wasn't OK.

 

[thetopher]

He wasn't OK - remember the conversation with Faith? If he is still in love with Buffy, or if it's just a thing that he can't let it go yet, I don't know, but he wasn't OK.

Well I agree that Angel wasn't 'okay' with it- he still loves Buffy and he is the jealous type. I do beleive that, in his better moments, Angel wants Buffy to be happy, otherwise he would've never have left her all those years ago to be with somebody 'better' and also (unsuccessfully) tried to move on himself.

But it doesn't mean that he was wrong either. I'm looking at what was said around Angel's little speech by everybody, as well the hints of what's to come in the future- the book, the warning signs about this very shaky relationship that have been there ever since that first kiss in the graveyard, Dylan's sudden reappearance.
Relationships have to be worked at, they don't magically come about. I wonder if Spike realizes that, given that Spike with a soul has never actually been in a relationship- all he has are memories of the demon in any sort of 'romance. With that and Dylan coming around (the character who JM wants Spike to be with) and there are very large sign posts about where this relationship is going.
Off a bridge most likely.

 

[gite63]

I do beleive that, in his better moments, Angel wants Buffy to be happy

Yes, he does. Spike had already reached that point - and then Buffy jumped on him again, as well as Xander concerning Dawn. But if Dawn starts dating someone, and is truly happy with this someone, I think Xander will move to London fast, where there should be good therapists...

 

[EVIL UU]

So, people want her with a new guy, a human guy, a guy who is in the know about supernatural things, a guy that is also a fighter or a hunter. Do you want a Riley all over again, then?

Riley all over again wouldn't be exactly new, would it? By new, I mean, well, for starters a relationship where Buffy doesn't have to put her life on the line to get laid, that would be nice. Something with a different dynamic, different tone, different stories, I mean, how many times can Buffy's lover try to kill her, seriously?