When Did Angel Become A Hero?

[white avenger]

We know that Angelus was the embodiment of all things evil, but just gaining a soul didn't make him one of the good guys. At what point (flashbacks included) do you see the actual beginning of the hero that Angel would become?

 

[Kean]

If you asked Angel, he would say he has never been a hero. And never will be one.

Myself, I don't particular like the idea of applying it to him either. Mostly, I think he is someone desperately wants to do the right thing. Sometimes he succeeds stunningly, and sometimes he fails miserably. The most important part for me is that he keeps trying anyway.

Angel's actions can often be described as heroic, but laying that title on his shoulders just doesn't feel right in my mind.

 

[Vamp Jenny]

I think that the first flashback of him actually saving someone was in 1900, when he saved the baby and didn't follow with what Darla wantes him to do. It was his first heroic gesture and, despite his few steps back along the road, he was already on the road of redemption at that point. And somewhere along the way, his road to redemption became a road to save the world. And that turn was probably taken around the time he started working with Buffy.

 

[Gum Gnome33]

Angel's actions can often be described as heroic, but laying that title on his shoulders just doesn't feel right in my mind.

Hmm really interesting perspective! I would say that since Angel has acted consistently in a manner that is heroic, he has been a hero. Maybe that's an oversimplification of the issues at hand, or of the question itself--but it's really how I feel.

Once he started to act in spite of the remorse and anguish that he felt, he was a hero. And of course there are so many ways in which someone can be a hero and so many levels therein, but in my opinion the act of risking one's life to make the world a better place in the face of so much adversity, (both externally and internally), can't be considered anything but true heroism.

 

[Kean]

Hmm really interesting perspective! I would say that since Angel has acted consistently in a manner that is heroic, he has been a hero. Maybe that's an oversimplification of the issues at hand, or of the question itself--but it's really how I feel.

Once he started to act in spite of the remorse and anguish that he felt, he was a hero. And of course there are so many ways in which someone can be a hero and so many levels therein, but in my opinion the act of risking one's life to make the world a better place in the face of so much adversity, (both externally and internally), can't be considered anything but true heroism.

Maybe it's because the term "Hero" has been so overused in the media that it has lost all meaning to me. The idea of him just wanting to do the right thing resonates so much more deeply with me because it is so easy to ignore that voice in your head that wants you to be the best version of yourself. There is so much that goes into the choices Angel makes everyday, putting the label "Hero" over that diminishes the complexity of that, for me.

Strangely enough, I would call Buffy a hero. I think it is utterly fitting for her and doesn't diminish her at all. I think it is exactly who she is, I think it comes to her naturally.

 

[white avenger]

If you asked Angel, he would say he has never been a hero. And never will be one.

Myself, I don't particular like the idea of applying it to him either. Mostly, I think he is someone desperately wants to do the right thing. Sometimes he succeeds stunningly, and sometimes he fails miserably. The most important part for me is that he keeps trying anyway.

Angel's actions can often be described as heroic, but laying that title on his shoulders just doesn't feel right in my mind.

Gonna make me start the dance, huh? Coward.

According to Webster:

Definition of HERO
1
a : a mythological or legendary figure often of divine descent endowed with great strength or ability b : an illustrious warrior c : a man admired for his achievements and noble qualities d : one who shows great courage
2
a : the principal male character in a literary or dramatic work b : the central figure in an event, period, or movement
3
plural usually he·ros : submarine 2
4
: an object of extreme admiration and devotion


By those definitions, we would have to say that Angel became a hero from the first moment that he appeared in "Welcome To The Hellmouth." In fact, it might even be argued that he was a "hero," by several of those definitions, from the moment that Darla turned him. Only definition 1:c even promotes the ides that a hero has to fight on the side of good. Agree, disagree, or just plain don't accept the definitions as valid in Angel's case?

 

[Chosen Enemy]

So I could answer that, there are a few questions I need to ask. Does one moment or event make you a hero? If you do one heroic thing, you're a hero? Or how many heroic deeds you need to do to make you a hero? Or maybe in order to become a hero you need to do many heroic things and/or for a long while before you win the title / be worthy of the title? Or maybe it's enough to just do one real big deed?

 

[Kean]

Gonna make me start the dance, huh? Coward.

According to Webster:

Definition of HERO
1
a : a mythological or legendary figure often of divine descent endowed with great strength or ability b : an illustrious warrior c : a man admired for his achievements and noble qualities d : one who shows great courage
2
a : the principal male character in a literary or dramatic work b : the central figure in an event, period, or movement
3
plural usually he·ros : submarine 2
4
: an object of extreme admiration and devotion


By those definitions, we would have to say that Angel became a hero from the first moment that he appeared in "Welcome To The Hellmouth." In fact, it might even be argued that he was a "hero," by several of those definitions, from the moment that Darla turned him. Only definition 1:c even promotes the ides that a hero has to fight on the side of good. Agree, disagree, or just plain don't accept the definitions as valid in Angel's case?

I know he ticks all the boxes on the Hero Form, it just doesn't feel right in my mind. It's like it is too simple a label. Lacks the dimensions and facets I see in who he is and what he does. I can't even describe it. He is just so much more (and less) than a "Hero".

In saying all that, I have exactly zero issue with anyone else bestowing that title on him. 🙂

 

[white avenger]

So I could answer that, there are a few questions I need to ask. Does one moment or event make you a hero? If you do one heroic thing, you're a hero? Or how many heroic deeds you need to do to make you a hero? Or maybe in order to become a hero you need to do many heroic things and/or for a long while before you win the title / be worthy of the title? Or maybe it's enough to just do one real big deed?

Okay, then let's decide what, in this context, the term "hero" means.

Would performing a specific act make automatically make someone a hero, or would the proper motivation (like, performing the act of one's own free will be considered heroic, but performing that same act under threat of punishment or penalty) be a contributing factor?

 

[Hale Caesar]

I would say Angel season 1 during the first episode, because that was when he actively started saving people

 

[The Scourge]

In Angel season 1. He started fighting the bad guys and helping people because he wanted to, not because the people he was hanging around (Buffy and the Scoobies) were doing it.