When did Cordy become the vessel for Jasmine?

When did Cordy become imbued with Jasmine?

  • In Happy Birthday when she became part-demon?

    Votes: 12 41.4%
  • In Tomorrow when she rose to become a higher being?

    Votes: 6 20.7%
  • When she came back down to earth in Season 4?

    Votes: 6 20.7%
  • Other

    Votes: 5 17.2%

  • Total voters
    29
  • Poll closed .
Very insightful...I think you've succeeded in changing my feelings on this issue. I know we'll probably never know all the exact details but you hit the nail on your head. I was going to give you a reputation thing for that post, but the system wouldn't let me :-(
 
Hitome has nailed it on the head defiantely, wow it sure is clever!
 
The best evidence that there was nothing else other than Jasmine in Cordy is what happened after Jasmine was born. Cordy slipped back into unconciousness immediately. Then she remained in a coma until she had one last vision and died. My take: The vision's killed Cordy, and Jasmine entered her when she first met Skip.

I think this is by far the most comprehensive theory posted, but I'm still a little fuzzy on why Cordy had to go to the higher plane before Jasmine could manifest. My take: she was on her way to meet Angel and profess her love for him. If Angel was ableto overpower Connor and get to the meeting-place, Skip and Jasmine had to make sure Cordy wasn't there. If she and Angel became an item, then it would be harder to get her to sleep with Connor, who was needed.

As for Connor's role, I think he was a latent deamon (like women who carry the hemophilia gene but don't actually have the disease). That is why he couldn't attack Angelus as long as the sanctuary spell was in effect. Even though he seemed perfectly human, he had demon qualities which were nescisary to pass on to Jasmine. He may not have been the child of Darla and Angel at all, but implanted in Darla by Jasmine in such a way that Angel would take care of him, thus giving him access to Cordelia.

Did that make any sense?
 
I agree about Jasmine being put into Cordelia in Birthday. That was a very good explanation, Hitome. And the more I think about it, the more I can tie that theory together. Cordy had the power to glow when she had her demonic powers ... So did Jasmine. Or at least, I think. Jasmine glowed when she ate her victims. Maybe that's how Cordy got rid of those slugs from The Price ... she ate their essence or something. I don't know, I'm rambling ... but you get my point.
 
Eset, you've given me an idea. What if Jasmine was inside of Connor until he had sex with Cordy?

Jasmine couldn't just hijack someone's body. She had to CREATE one, Connor. And for some reason, he had to be born out of an impossible circumstance. She made it possible for the two vampires to have a child. Cordelia was only the second part of the plan. Everything that happened to her was in preperation for being impregnated with Jasmine. This makes Connor her literal father, and explains why it HAD to be him. Does this make any sense?
 
It's kind of a enigma for Angel fans. We all know that Jasmine(or the force bringing Jasmine forth)was in Cordy at least from the time that she came back down to earth from the higher plain. But I don't think it really manifested itself until a little later on in the season...or at least not completely. The goal of this thing was to have sex with Connor. Yet up until "apocolypse nowish", she spurned Connor's advances. I don't think Jasmine was in the drivers seat till she had sex with Connor. Otherwise she would have slept with him on an earlier date. I still can't picture Cordy having sex with Connor, so I wonder if that whole ring of fire thing that the beast did right before Cordy slept with Connor was some kind of thing to give Jasmine control completely over Cordy's body. I will get back on that once I have re-watched the rest of the season.
 
Actually, I think that the reason Cordy seemed completely normal up until Apocalypse Nowish was because I don't believe Jasmine was really unlocked until the end of Spin The Bottle-I have a feeling it was that spell that did it. After that, she seemed to embrace Connor's advances and get increasingly cold where Angel was concerned.
 
H
Hitome
I think you are right here.
Jacklyn said:
Actually, I think that the reason Cordy seemed completely normal up until Apocalypse Nowish was because I don't believe Jasmine was really unlocked until the end of Spin The Bottle-I have a feeling it was that spell that did it. After that, she seemed to embrace Connor's advances and get increasingly cold where Angel was concerned.

I think you are right here, but I also think that Jasmine was influencing Cordy's behavior even in Season 3. At times, saintly Cordy sounds a lot like Jasmine, and almost nothing like Cordy from earlier seasons and You're Welcome. I think Jasmine was influencing her thought processes very early on in the possession, however it wasn't until after Spin the Bottle that she had almost full control. I say almost because Cordy still had a little of her personality, remeber the "damn meteors" line after she slept with Connor. That line makes me think that the possession came in stages. First Jasmine influenced Cordy. Later, she controlled her, but Cordy was still concious if acting unlike herself. In other words, Cordy still had awareness and might know she was acting irrationally but she wouldn't know why. Finally Jasmine completely replaced Cordy and controlled her body.
 
What I don't get is why Evil Cordy was acting so standoffish after she had sex with Connor. When he was asleep, Cordy looked really embarrassed. I understand that she would have to keep up the charade, but even when Connor was fast asleep? And she was also very alarmed when Angel found out about it too. I mean, at that point, didn't the writers know they were gonna make her evil. It just doesn't tie completely together like it should.
 
Utopia said:
What I don't get is why Evil Cordy was acting so standoffish after she had sex with Conner.

I think that she acted that way because Cordy was not completely possessed yet. On one level she was still Cordy, although she was acting in a way that completely strange for Cordy. Jasmine was influencing her judgement and making her do things that she would never do, but Cordy could still react to her own actions. She wasn't Jasmine completely, but Cordy wasn't in control. Does that make sense? I'm bad at explaining tonight.
 
C
Cordelia
[No message]
Hitome said:
I think that she acted that way because Cordy was not completely possessed yet. On one level she was still Cordy, although she was acting in a way that completely strange for Cordy. Jasmine was influencing her judgement and making her do things that she would never do, but Cordy could still react to her own actions. She wasn't Jasmine completely, but Cordy wasn't in control. Does that make sense? I'm bad at explaining tonight.

Well, then I guess I can understand why it happened then. Cordy didn't start acting really evil until about Long Day's Journey, so your theory may be correct. :vpleased:
 
Hitome said:
I think that she acted that way because Cordy was not completely possessed yet. On one level she was still Cordy, although she was acting in a way that completely strange for Cordy. Jasmine was influencing her judgement and making her do things that she would never do, but Cordy could still react to her own actions. She wasn't Jasmine completely, but Cordy wasn't in control. Does that make sense? I'm bad at explaining tonight.

I agree. I think the takeover of Cordy by Jasmine was a more gradual process than most people may realize. By the ending Jasmine was as Skip said "driving" but there were definitely times, especially toward the beginning of when she got her memory back that she was very much Cordelia and very much acting of her own will.
 
I think Birthday is a possibility. After all Cordy was transformed to a whole new level of being. Who knew what was in store for her? However, if Cordelia was truly a being in a higher, heavenly place I do not think she could have been a vessel for something evil like Jasmine. In Ground State, Angel mentioned she was surrounded by light made of pure joy. I think her descent from heaven actually led her to become the vessel. Maybe Cordy fell into a hellish demension on her journey back. Or in order for Earth to take her back(Cordy a being for good) it had to receive a dark force to keep a balance(ying-yang).
 
Sorry in advance if i repeat anything already stated in this thread but i've only briefly skimmed over it. Didn't want to influence myself too much with others opinions until i'd given my own interpretation of what happened to Cordy.

First of all, this was clearly a longterm plan of Jasmine's. We discovered in Inside Out that she had been manipulating events for a very long time, certainly a lot of what had happened to Cordy since season one of Angel had been influenced by Jasmine's wishes. This isn't to say that Cordy didn't make her own choices though, she and the other characters all had their free will to choose their own path. All Jasmine could do was create events that would influence them to make the choices she needed them to make. Similar to the way Cordy made the slot machine pay out in The House Always Wins in order to get Angel where he needed to be.

But essentially Cordy, not to mention Angel, Darla, Wesley, Connor and the others, were all being positioned like chess pieces on a board, to bring about Jasmine's birth.

One such instance was Cordy being given the visions, something no ordinary human could ever survive for long, which eventually forced her to be made part demon. Now is it just me or did anyone else notice that the powers she displayed throughout the end of season three were very similar to what we eventually saw Jasmine do. The calming influence that her "light" brought about when Connor was about to attack her in Benedicton looked to me to be exactly what Jasmine did with her own powers when her very presence would remove all hatred and violence from the onlooker. It is clear that the alterations made to Cordy were a lot more far reaching than just to allow her to survive the visions. She now had the correct demonic makeup that would make her capable of giving birth to Jasmine's physical form.

All that mattered now was to get Cordelia to the higher planes so that Jasmine could infuse herself into Cordy. It was during her time as a higher power, between Tomorrow and The House Always Wins, that Jasmine possessed her. that was the whole reason for her being taken up there in the first place.

The amnesia was just a totally unexpected side effect that even Jasmine was not prepared for. Returning to earth and her physical form caused Cordy to forget who she was and where she had been whilst Jasmine, for some unknown reason, became dormant. This was until Lorne's spell reactivated Cordy's memory and woke Jasmine up.

However this was not the point where Jasmine took Cordy's place entirely. In fact there is no sure way to determine exactly where Cordy was completely submerged, although it's fair to say that by the end of Calvary it was entirely Jasmine running the show. Lilah's murder showed that much. After that it was very clearly not Cordy making the decisions.

However between Apocalypse Nowish and Soulless it is much more uncertain. Up until Long Day's Journey t is obvious that Cordy isn't totally herself and the decisions she makes, sleeping with Connor being the obvious example, are of jasmine's doing. Even so we see many small bits of evidence that show Cordy is still present. The nightmare about the Beast she had at the start of Apocalypse Nowish, the "morning after" look she had on her face when she woke up in bed next to Connor, the intense regret she showed when it became clear that Angel knew what had happened. All those things were not done in front of anybody so there was no reason for Jasmine to be acting, clearly it was still Cordy in there.

However Jasmine was able to take Cordy over for brief periods without her realising, the various murders she commited, including Manny in Long Day's Journey, and the stealing of Angel's soul, were only possible because of that.

There is still evidence that Cordy was around during her conversations with Angelus in Soulless although by that point in has become very hard to tell how much of what was being said was her and how much was Jasmine, certainly nothing that Cordy does in that episode could not be considered a part of Jasmine's manipulations. By the end of Calvary though, as i previously said, Cordy was no longer in any control of her body.

So to summarise, Cordy was altered to be Jasmine's vessel in Birthday, she was only actually possessed though during her time as a higher being. Jasmine was awakened in Spin the Bottle but took control very gradually and had only taken over Cordy completely by the end of Calvary.

Wow that was longer than i intended! 😉
 
I think she became a potential vessel for Jasmine when she became a demon. I think she actually became the vessel when she came back from the higher plane.
 
elmo said:
I think she became a potential vessel for Jasmine when she became a demon. I think she actually became the vessel when she came back from the higher plane.

Not just a "potential" vessel, a "specific" vessel. Jasmine was behind the entire thing so Cordy's transformation into a half demon was intentionally carried out to ensure that Cordy could contain Jasmine. The vision problem was just a smokescreen Jasmine manipulated to get Cordy to allow the change.
 
J
Jacklyn
You've got a point-and the proof is in the fact that Skip affected the change in Birthday. The very same Skip that was working for Jasmine in Season 4.
I originally picked that Jasmine took over when Cordelia returned to Earth in "the House always Wins"

But after reading the transcript that was provided from "inside Out", I began thinking.

It's probably been planned since the beginning of time. Just like how Angel was always planned to stop Acathla, but instead he brought it forth. YOu know, that some things are just 'destiny'

but who knows?
 
This has pretty much all been said, but I need to get it out for my own sanity ^_^

What I think happened:

-Skip was on Jasmines side, and the whole Birthday 'make cordy a demon' thing was necessary, because a human couldn't carry Jasmine. Likewise, Connor had to be human but the vamp-vamp parents gave him the strength needed.

-I don't think Jasmine entered Cordy until after Tomorrow, she kind of hitchhiked back for the higher plane. But see *

-At first Cordy wasn't controlled by real Cordy or Jasmine, she was just a lost soul. It was the memory spell that allowed Jasmine to emerge. And she was then fully controlled by Jasmine.

*But here's the interesting part that I though about (sorry if its been suggested already):

When Cordy came back from the higher plane, part of her (her soul?) actually stayed behind as a higher being and watched over events. Then in Welcome Back she managed to find a way to get back to her body on earth, but just for a short while so that she could pass on her visions.

This is deep, I doubt we can ever be sure from the show itself, but I'm sure Joss has it all worked out in full. I hope he tells us some day.
 
J
Jacklyn
A very interesting new theory! I like!
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