"When I Killed Him..."

If anyone in this world (or, I guess, in BUFFY"S world), knew that killing a vampire resulted in a cloud of dust, it was Buffy. In order to close the dimensional portal, a whole, physical body had to pass through, therefore Angel COULD NOT have been dead, or the portal would not have closed back. Buffy could accurately say that she sent Angel to hell, but not that she killed him. It's a fine line, I agree, but it still exists. (Is this another "cavemen vs astronauts" argument?)
 
palabravampiress
palabravampiress
In answer to your previous rep comment, yes; by that logic, Holtz and Connor died when they went to Hell and so did Fred. Angel grieved for Connor as if he had died, anyway.
I would say she did kill him by shoving him in. I don't think a whole body was necessary by the rules that went with Acathala and opening/closing the demon's portal. It required blood to open the portal in combination with pulling out the sword, and required blood to close it. That's not a whole body necessarily, although it would do the trick too (just in a quicker more dramatic way). There is some vagueness on how much blood was required to close it, but I don't remember them saying he had to go in his entirety. I think Buffy pushed him in, because on some subconscious level she knew he had gone evil again and needed to be destroyed. So she pushed him through, sending him to hell.
 
vampireczarina said:
I would say she did kill him by shoving him in. I don't think a whole body was necessary by the rules that went with Acathala and opening/closing the demon's portal. It required blood to open the portal in combination with pulling out the sword, and required blood to close it. That's not a whole body necessarily, although it would do the trick too (just in a quicker more dramatic way). There is some vagueness on how much blood was required to close it, but I don't remember them saying he had to go in his entirety. I think Buffy pushed him in, because on some subconscious level she knew he had gone evil again and needed to be destroyed. So she pushed him through, sending him to hell.
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Whistler: His blood will open the door to Hell. Acathla opens
his big mouth, creates a vortex. Then only Angel's blood will close it.
One blow will send 'em both back to Hell.
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from what whistler says, i guess it wasnt possible to keep angel out of the vortex. she certainly didnt push him in
 
Isn't this the same principle as Buffy's death at the end of season 5, her body goes through a hell dimension portal and her soul is ripped out. True she ended up in heaven and not a hell dimension but she died all the same. Angel's body is sucked through a hell dimension, Buffy had no knowledge at that time that it was possible to survive something like that. He's gone from her world and as far as she is concerned there's no bringing him back.

On a side note, before Angel gets his soul back did anyone else think she looked ready to behead him?? If she'd have done that how would she have closed the gate??
 
Jules said:
Isn't this the same principle as Buffy's death at the end of season 5, her body goes through a hell dimension portal and her soul is ripped out. True she ended up in heaven and not a hell dimension but she died all the same. Angel's body is sucked through a hell dimension, Buffy had no knowledge at that time that it was possible to survive something like that. He's gone from her world and as far as she is concerned there's no bringing him back.

On a side note, before Angel gets his soul back did anyone else think she looked ready to behead him?? If she'd have done that how would she have closed the gate??
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Good point with the beheading. Maybe she figured she could kill him now and just dump his pieces into the vortex. 😉

With the other thing, I dont know if ur right. Buffy went THROUGH the portal to close it and died because of it. Angel went INTO the the portal, into a hell dimension without losing his soul. It seems quite different to me.
 
I think that when Buffy says that she killed Angel, I think that at the core she knows that a sword through the hear won't kill a vampire. But when doing that she was sending him to hell and I think because of that she probably thought that in doing so she did kill him. That there would be no way that he could survive hell.
 
I think this is the sword Kendra said was blessed by a knight or something, it's meant to kill vampires. So Buffy thought she killed him with it. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's my answer.
 
^^^^can't say I remember for certain, but I thought that was just a sword to kill and seal Acathala. If she would behead Angel with it, game over, but just piercing his heart wouldn't do the trick. Course, I'm not sure about that. 🙂

When Buffy says that she killed Angel I agree with the folks that say overall:

Buffy went to kill Angelus and if necessary re-seal Acathala before he could draw in his first breath, she had no knowledge of Willow trying to re soul Angelus and bring back Angel.

Suprise! He gets resouled, but only after Acathala starts to stir. The only way to undo this is by using Angels Blood, so she pins them direct route, heart to heart, together. She thinks this may kill him, but its something she has to do as it is the fastest way to seal the portal.

She stabs him but he does'nt die, instead Angel gets sucked into hell...I guess his blood took just that long to seal Acathala, or maybe thats what happens to the conjurer that messes with Acathala and fails to deliver? I dunno.

I wonder if she really knew it would kill him, she never talks about it like it was a slay- and in Angels case that would be like a murder for her, so much as a consequence of her actions which she took because of her duty and role as a hero saving the world. I mean she says she killed him, not murdered him. Probably just a technicality, but the sword through his heart I don't think would kill him. Acathala taking him to hell certainly would. Ican't remember if Acathala taking the creature that awoke him to hell is a part of prophecy and such when dealing with resealing Acathala, I'm not sure but I don't think Buffy saw that one coming.

just my yammerings based off of some of everbody elses ideas.
 
Did y'all also notice that mny vampires apparantly can die when they are stabbed in the stomach?
 
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Relic
are they male? They say the quickest way to a mans heart is through his stomache...least thats the old timers line! :)
AHH!! I remember now! I wanted to say that in the thread "what bugs you blabla..." but i didn't remember what it was!!

And did you noticed that sometimes they stake a vampire really close to the heart and they say something like "sorry, that's not the heart" -_-
 
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I remeber in season 3 when Angel gets poisoned...Faiths "sucky shot" looked pretty good to me for a dust bringer! maybe it is in their tummies?
DarkAvenger said:
And did you noticed that sometimes they stake a vampire really close to the heart and they say something like "sorry, that's not the heart" -_-
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Oh oh oh, they totally did that in "Vampire in Brooklyn"!!!

(Eddie Murphey as Max, a mighty curly vamp) He get's stabbed and he's all like "Sorry, This the heart, and that is my stomach. Heart, Stomach!"
 
pernilleborup said:
Did y'all also notice that mny vampires apparantly can die when they are stabbed in the stomach?
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i've noticed that too! then again, there are a couple of vampire-related things that just change whenever its convenient, eg. the whole 'having-a-soul' thing. angel was in love with buffy, yet when he lost is his soul he lost the ability to love, care, have remorse....just everything remotely human. then the whole spike thing started. he didnt have a soul either, yet he could love her, he cared for her and when he tried to rape her he later on felt hugely sorry about it. i think the sword through angel was supposed to kill him. but even if not. even if its 'only' supposed to send him to hell, for one: thats not a pretty place to be in and two: it took him away from her and isnt that really all she says to xander? he doesnt wanna give up anya cos shes a demon and killed people, yet SHE had to give up angel cos he was a demon and killed people
 
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