Chosen Enemy
Losing my soul
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The Scooby Gang are best friends, who care for each other, and save each other's lives. But were there times were they were bad friends to each other?
When were they bad friends?
- Thread starter Chosen Enemy
- Start date
During a lot of season four they didn't seem to have time for each other, such as Willow's break up with Oz.
In my book, there are too many incidents to count.
I think the stage that I feel it began to get bad was S3 and then it just got worse every season.
The more serious the slaying got and the older the Scoobies became, the more their friendship suffered. To me it is the main difference between the Scoobies and the Fang Gang; the Scoobies were thrown together and made the best of it, but the Fang Gang chose their life, and work, together. I feel the Scoobies are slow to forgive each other, while the Fang Gang always work through their issues. No matter how dire or painful they are. I suppose, you could chalk it up as the difference between high school and friendships formed in adulthood.
caitaintdead
caiters gonna cait
One off the top of my head was Buffy showing a complete lack of empathy towards Xander in Selfless. She was incredibly cold hearted towards him, and despite her being a slayer and needing to show a certain lack of empathy sometimes, I can't help but feel like if one of my friends spoke to me like that I would be losing their phone number quick fast.
I also think it was piss poor of Willow and Tara to not offer to pay Buffy any rent, not to mention the fact that they let her finances completely turn to mush. They should have gotten themselves some jobs and helped out. I know I would do that for my friends and I know they would do that for me. As if they weren't even paying the god damn mortgage. Completely unforgivable in my opinion.
To many Xander moments to even mention so I won't pick one.
I also think it was piss poor of Willow and Tara to not offer to pay Buffy any rent, not to mention the fact that they let her finances completely turn to mush. They should have gotten themselves some jobs and helped out. I know I would do that for my friends and I know they would do that for me. As if they weren't even paying the god damn mortgage. Completely unforgivable in my opinion.
To many Xander moments to even mention so I won't pick one.
Hale Caesar
Sunnydale Nerd
white avenger
white avenger
Like any group of friends, the Scoobies bonded because of a certain set of circumstances, in their case the double bond of high school and patrolling the hellmouth. Once that particular set of circumstances stopped, the individuals began to form their own separate lives and to drift apart. We see this begin in Season 4, when part of the bond is severed for Xander. He goes out into the "real world" and joins the work force, while Buffy and Willow remain students. The group still has the hellmouth, but, beyond that, their lives begin to diverge. By Season 6, Xander is a full time construction worker, Willow has entered into the equivalent of marriage with Tara, Giles has gone back home to England, and Buffy is dead. Buffy's resurrection brings a temporary re-bonding of the group, but it is only short lived, lasting through Season 6 and partway into Season 7, but "Empty Places" was the death knoll for the original Scooby gang, and we will almost certainly never see the group that close together again. Certainly, they may come together in a time of crisis, Twilight, for instance, but once the battle is over, they all once more go their separate ways.
That's not so much being "bad" friends, or even losing the feeling of kinship that they have enjoyed for all the years. It's just growing up, growing apart, and each making his or her own life. The closest thing to the "gang" still in existence is Spike and Buffy, and even their bond has evolved into something different than it was in Sunnydale.
That's not so much being "bad" friends, or even losing the feeling of kinship that they have enjoyed for all the years. It's just growing up, growing apart, and each making his or her own life. The closest thing to the "gang" still in existence is Spike and Buffy, and even their bond has evolved into something different than it was in Sunnydale.
brinkster130
Riley's BFF
Totally, and very frequently in the later seasons. I always thought that once the glamour of fighting the bad guys in a secret club wore off, the Scoobies relationships started to suffer. Their lives changed and they were included in something that would have been really difficult to turn away from, that lack of freedom with their futures could have created resentment in all of them. IMO, that resentment lead to them physically being apart of the group but putting their wants and needs first as well as mentally checking out whenever it got inconvenient. Many people grow apart from their childhood and high school friends as they grow up; the Scoobies didn't get that chance.
Yes! I couldn't agree more. 🙂
Yes! I couldn't agree more. 🙂
I wouldn't say the Fang Gang forgive each other easily, remember Wesley stealing Connor? Everybody turned on Wesley because their loyalty remained with Angel.
I think the Scoobies became more than just friends after High School. They became a family. The Scoobies are family members who don't share each other's interests anymore but will always have their Christmas and Thanksgiving together, will always have each other's backs when it really counts, and will always be there when there's a financial or world-saving problem.
They're like Modern Family in a way, they have their own separate lives, but then meet up at dinner.
The Fang Gang is different. They're a group of people who recently met – they look exactly like the Scoobies in S1 and S2- who only have each other. They don't have a social life outside of each other like the Scoobies do: Xander at work and with Anya. Willow at college and with Tara. Buffy at the Doublemeat Palace and later school and with Spike. Giles at the Magic Box. Spike at the demon bar playing for kittens with Clem and the others. Dawn at school. The Fang Gang work and live in the same place, the Hyperion is their Sunnydale High. Even when they gave Wesley a girlfriend, she was completely a background character and then dumped him before we got to know her.
---------- Post added at 10:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:28 AM ----------
I disagree. Buffy and Xander were really close in S8. They haven't been this close during the show. It was the first time I see Buffy leaving the fight to hug a crying Xander or see Xander be so supportive of Buffy that he approves of her stealing, when usually he's the first one to stand up to her when she makes a mistake. Not only that, but Xander's complete faith in Buffy: "Buffy!" "She can't hear you." "She can. She always can." And Buffy did hear him and come back to save them. This just shows the strong connection between Buffy and Xander.
S8 showed us a lot of Buffy, Xander and Willow friendship scenes than were completely rare in S7. The rift between them now has a reason that has yet to be revealed, at least in Xander and Buffy's case. Buffy and Willow have left things on good terms in #5.
I think the Scoobies became more than just friends after High School. They became a family. The Scoobies are family members who don't share each other's interests anymore but will always have their Christmas and Thanksgiving together, will always have each other's backs when it really counts, and will always be there when there's a financial or world-saving problem.
They're like Modern Family in a way, they have their own separate lives, but then meet up at dinner.
The Fang Gang is different. They're a group of people who recently met – they look exactly like the Scoobies in S1 and S2- who only have each other. They don't have a social life outside of each other like the Scoobies do: Xander at work and with Anya. Willow at college and with Tara. Buffy at the Doublemeat Palace and later school and with Spike. Giles at the Magic Box. Spike at the demon bar playing for kittens with Clem and the others. Dawn at school. The Fang Gang work and live in the same place, the Hyperion is their Sunnydale High. Even when they gave Wesley a girlfriend, she was completely a background character and then dumped him before we got to know her.
---------- Post added at 10:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:28 AM ----------
I disagree. Buffy and Xander were really close in S8. They haven't been this close during the show. It was the first time I see Buffy leaving the fight to hug a crying Xander or see Xander be so supportive of Buffy that he approves of her stealing, when usually he's the first one to stand up to her when she makes a mistake. Not only that, but Xander's complete faith in Buffy: "Buffy!" "She can't hear you." "She can. She always can." And Buffy did hear him and come back to save them. This just shows the strong connection between Buffy and Xander.
S8 showed us a lot of Buffy, Xander and Willow friendship scenes than were completely rare in S7. The rift between them now has a reason that has yet to be revealed, at least in Xander and Buffy's case. Buffy and Willow have left things on good terms in #5.
I think the scoobies (Willow in particular) weren't particularly good friends to Buffy at the beginning of season six. I think they chose to believe that Buffy was in a hell dimension so that they had an excuse to Resurrect her for their own benefit rather than thinking about other possibilities. Then they left her to dig her way out of her own grave (which was unintentional, but still negligent).
Ohh I miss the Karma-button. So many good examples.
Empty Places is one of my favorites. Or when Buffy opened them that she loves Spike her friends reacted very coldly. There had been some moments in every season. For example in season 2 when Buffys old schoolfriend arrives in Sunnydale and abuses Buffy as trap to become a vampire. Willow, Xander and Angel made some researches without informing Buffy. I could understand Buffy when she was disapoinied and felt excluded(?).
Empty Places is one of my favorites. Or when Buffy opened them that she loves Spike her friends reacted very coldly. There had been some moments in every season. For example in season 2 when Buffys old schoolfriend arrives in Sunnydale and abuses Buffy as trap to become a vampire. Willow, Xander and Angel made some researches without informing Buffy. I could understand Buffy when she was disapoinied and felt excluded(?).
When was that? 😕
I thought the Scoobies were jerks to Xander in The Zeppo, even though they had good intentions, but they were disrespectable. I also hated that Buffy didn't invite Xander to her house for Christmas. There's also the time when Xander recoils and no one notices. The Scoobies have a history in neglecting Xander.
WileyDairyGnome
Strong like an Amazon
Or when Buffy opened them that she loves Spike her friends reacted very coldly.
Well you got me. ;P 'Cause I don't know the exactly episode. But she told then more than once that she loves him and anyway they didn't made any trys to let him join the group. For example in empty places when they sent him away from her. There are more examples for such scenes!
sosa lola said:
Well you got me. ;P 'Cause I don't know the exactly episode. But she told then more than once that she loves him and anyway they didn't made any trys to let him join the group. For example in empty places when they sent him away from her. There are more examples for such scenes!
You got your facts wrong. 😀 Buffy never confessed she loved Spike to anyone but Spike in Chosen. And the Scoobies didn't send Spike away in Empty Places, Giles did that and I'm sure he didn't do it for petty reasons like keeping Spike away from Buffy.
As for joining the group, Giles had told Spike that he could be part of them in S4, but Spike flat out refused. Every time the gang go to Spike for help, he flat out tells them he won't help them because he's evil and will kill them when he gets his chip out. All that followed by a betrayal with Adam and then kidnapping the doctor to get the chip out and try to kill Buffy, and then chaining Buffy and threatening to kill her if she didn't tell him she loved him, I personally don't hold it against the Scoobies if they felt wry of Spike after all that.
They did, but they also all resolved their issues about the situation and that was shown explicitly on the show. Even when some issues are addressed between the Scoobies, they never feel resolved or put to bed, like the "Kick his ass" moment. To me, that still isn't done with. Not just with Xander and Buffy, but with Willow and Xander. Same goes for Empty Places. Willow mentioned blaming Buffy for Tara's death in S8. I'm sure I could pull a much more exhaustive list, if I wanted to.
SlayerFest
Wiley Dairy Gnome
Haha I seriously do not understand why Willow and Tara didn't get jobs. It really doesn't make sense, I mean they didn't seem to go to class that often. Everyone was just like, "Welcome home Buffy...get a damn job!!" they kind of deserved to get tied up and thrown down the basement stairs...only kidding 😉 sort of. Overall they were good friends to Buffy but they had their moments. Also, Buffy didn't seem that insensitive to how Xander was feeling in Selfless, I mean he was so horrible when it came to the "should we kill Angel or restore his soul?" situation. She was a bit harsh but...it made sense. Anya made the choice to become evil, Angel didn't. But...that's another discussion for another time 😉.
Jod
Cookie dough
i agree 🙂
in season 7 when willow/xander/anya/dawn and pretty much everyone kicked buffy out of her OWN home, and didnt really appologize enough IMO. also in season 3 after buffy had to kill angel she needed a break and when she returned xander and willow (again in my opinion) were bad friends as they only thought of themselves how buffy had put them through hell having to go patroling etc.. they didnt really stop and think 'hold up she saves the world all the time, had to kill her bf..lets give her a wee break' 😀
Willow My Love
Scooby
EMPTY PLACES, EMPTY PLACES, EMPTY PLACES. They were horrible to Buffy in that episode!
I feel like both Xander and Buffy were a little insensitive in Selfless. Buffy with deciding seemingly quickly to kill Anya, Xander for forgetting what Buffy's had to do. And in Becoming, when Xander gives Buffy Willow's "message", that really makes me angry. Maybe she wouldn't have left if she had even the few minutes she'd had to prepare herself for that eventuality. Plus, Buffy probably had some pent up anger at Willow for that for all those years that wasn't warranted. I think Xander was pretty bad to Buffy in a lot of ways regarding Buffy. I understand that you don't like the guy, but Buffy was going through a hell of a lot, and he pulls out the, "I didn't like Angel before all of you! I told you so!" He didn't like Angel because he wanted Buffy, and that clouded him.
There's the obvious one of The Yoko Factor. They weren't listening to each other. They were just all hurt at what Spike had said, and didn't trust each other enough to talk about it first, rather than it being an angry confrontation. They should have known better.
Those are all I can think of right now.
I feel like both Xander and Buffy were a little insensitive in Selfless. Buffy with deciding seemingly quickly to kill Anya, Xander for forgetting what Buffy's had to do. And in Becoming, when Xander gives Buffy Willow's "message", that really makes me angry. Maybe she wouldn't have left if she had even the few minutes she'd had to prepare herself for that eventuality. Plus, Buffy probably had some pent up anger at Willow for that for all those years that wasn't warranted. I think Xander was pretty bad to Buffy in a lot of ways regarding Buffy. I understand that you don't like the guy, but Buffy was going through a hell of a lot, and he pulls out the, "I didn't like Angel before all of you! I told you so!" He didn't like Angel because he wanted Buffy, and that clouded him.
There's the obvious one of The Yoko Factor. They weren't listening to each other. They were just all hurt at what Spike had said, and didn't trust each other enough to talk about it first, rather than it being an angry confrontation. They should have known better.
Those are all I can think of right now.
I completely agree there. They were downright rude to her when she came back. She wanted a small dinner with them, and instead they threw a huge party and totally ignored her making her wonder why she even came back. And Willow ditching her at the Espresso Pump... That wasn't nice either.
white avenger
white avenger
---------- Post added at 10:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:28 AM ----------
I disagree. Buffy and Xander were really close in S8. They haven't been this close during the show. It was the first time I see Buffy leaving the fight to hug a crying Xander or see Xander be so supportive of Buffy that he approves of her stealing, when usually he's the first one to stand up to her when she makes a mistake. Not only that, but Xander's complete faith in Buffy: "Buffy!" "She can't hear you." "She can. She always can." And Buffy did hear him and come back to save them. This just shows the strong connection between Buffy and Xander.
[/QUOTE]
But that only illustrates my point. If Buffy still saw Xander as "Scooby Xander," she would never have that sort of romantic feelings for him. The scooby gang is in effect extinct by Season 8. That doesn't mean that the individuals themselves can't remain friends, but that "One for all, and all for one" camaraderie, the very thing that defined them as a gang, team, or crew, no longer exists.
I disagree. Buffy and Xander were really close in S8. They haven't been this close during the show. It was the first time I see Buffy leaving the fight to hug a crying Xander or see Xander be so supportive of Buffy that he approves of her stealing, when usually he's the first one to stand up to her when she makes a mistake. Not only that, but Xander's complete faith in Buffy: "Buffy!" "She can't hear you." "She can. She always can." And Buffy did hear him and come back to save them. This just shows the strong connection between Buffy and Xander.
[/QUOTE]
But that only illustrates my point. If Buffy still saw Xander as "Scooby Xander," she would never have that sort of romantic feelings for him. The scooby gang is in effect extinct by Season 8. That doesn't mean that the individuals themselves can't remain friends, but that "One for all, and all for one" camaraderie, the very thing that defined them as a gang, team, or crew, no longer exists.
caitaintdead
caiters gonna cait
See I think Buffy leaving all her friends and letting them think she was dead was INCREDIBLY selfish and made me think she was a bad friend. Her friends that loved her and cared about her and she knew that. They sacrificed their lives and safety to protect her and Willow almost DIED trying to make things okay for Buffy.
Would it really have killed her to send an anonymously addressed letter to her mum and/or Giles saying 'I'm alive and safe but please don't come looking'.
If one of my best friends pretended to be dead for 3 months I would be FURIOUS. It would not be forgiven straight away.