When you think of it like this;

Is it better?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 10 35.7%
  • No.

    Votes: 9 32.1%
  • Indifferent.

    Votes: 9 32.1%

  • Total voters
    28

Nikita

Potential
Joined
Nov 7, 2010
Messages
252
When you break season 7 up into chunks, and not think of it as an episode-episode basis, it actually turns out to be one of the best seasons, like so:

1 - Lessons and Beneath You -These two episodes introduced the first, the potential killings and Spike having a soul (Not to mention the classic saying; "From Beneath You, It Devours."). The acting in these two episodes were great, and alone, they can be a bit boring, but as two episodes, they function well.

2 - Same Time, Same Place - Good idea, executed badly, Some good character development here for Willow and Dawn, but I don't know, it doesn't seem to function as-well as this episode could have functioned.

3 - Help - This episode is fantastic, and the best episode of the season until CWDP comes around, it introduces the character of Cassie and shows Buffy as her role as the guidance counselor, some great acting here as well. Written well and one of my favorite episodes of the season.

4 - Selfless - This episode was also great, a good stand-alone Xanya episode. Halfrek died, which is disappointing cause she was one of the only real characters on the show, she doesn't sugar-coat anything and that made her amazing. Anya's flashback to OMWF is pure amazingness though.

5 - Him - This episode is funny, RJ isn't horribly looking and it isn't a bad episode. It's an alright stand alone episode, has some alright Dawn moments and some hilarious Willow moments.

6 - Conversations With Dead People - This episode is just a classic in Buffy standards, it shows how amazing of an actress Azura Skye for one thing. We get some character development with Spike, Willow and Buffy. Dawn's anchovy song is awesome, Joyce making an appearance is subtle, but it makes sense and I like it, especially the sad glow such a happy character creates for an episode. From Beneath You, It devours.

Now we get to the big episodes, where they start to fold in together, becoming more like 2, 3, even seemingly 4 parters.

7 - Sleeper and Never Leave Me - These two episodes are very spike centric, they show us finding about the first's power over Spike and what Spike's been doing to people, We find out a lot of stuff about certain characters and Spike goes mad somewhere in the middle of it. Some awesome Xanya 'swell 😀. Also, the watchers council blowing up is classy stuff.

8 - Bring On The Night and Showtime - These are the two episodes where the Turok'Han, arguably a more important big bad then The First shows up, the most powerful vampire Buffy has ever faced and also the introduction of the potentials. Kennedy was good here (But became annoying somewhat in the last 7 or so episodes.)

So far, we've seen that doing it this way, actually makes the season seem more like it folded together. Doing it this way, we have the ability to see the characters and the episodes more so as a part of something.

9 - Potential - Introduces some more potentials, Introduction of the amazing Amanda, Dawn played amazingly by Michelle Trachtenberg, finally seeing her growing into her own character not being shadowed by Buffy. Some reason this episode seems to be lacking something...

10 - The Killer In Me - Elizabeth Anne Allen and Adam Busch make this episode for me, Kennedy became needy but actually showed Willow that she cared, had they taken it A LOT slower, it could've worked, but it didn't. Buffy and Spike's part is good, and I can not vocalize how glad I was that Riley didn't come back even if it is an initative based episode. xD

11 - First Date - Giles plays a big role and he just makes these episodes so exciting - I love it because he knows exactly what he is doing all the time, Buffy is able to keep her secret from Wood until they're attacked in the alley. Great Acting by Wood's mum and we just see a great episode, Spike killed Wood's mum, and Wood isn't happy about it.

12 - Get It Done - Will start first with the massively scary vision at the end. It's not enough! Some great Willow action and some Spanya! Love Buffy's speech this episode, she's telling the truth too, other than the Chosen speech, this is the best all season. I hated Chloe, so glad she's gone.

13 - Storyteller - Meh, it's okay. Andrew centric episode, which I hate, lots of Xanya which is really cute and really lovely, but overall it is only an okay episode and the worst of the season by far.

14 - Lies My Parents Told Me - Buffy has the right to be pissed here but at the same time she is being a bit petty and a bit self-centered, obviously Wood was fighting from his heart and he hates Spike, which is fair after what Spike did to his family. Some great past scenes from Spike with his mother and Drusilla, his mother was great. 😀

15- Dirty Girls and Empty Places - These two episodes are great, the reintroduction of Faith, the introduction of Caleb, the big battle that ensues, the death of Molly and Annabelle (I think, correct me if I'm wrong) and we see Faith pull off some pretty cool moves with them all, some annoying Andrew stuff which is normal, Buffy being kicked out of the house in a very powerful scene, You could tell Faith was uncomfortable but the fact that even Dawn turned on her bothered me.

16 - Touched and End Of Days - These two episodes REALLY showed you what's going to have to go on, Faith takes more of the lead (and has sex with Wood, while Kennedy does the deed with Willow, Spuffy and Xanya action aswell) and we see her go down into the sewers followed by a bunch of ubervamps, but that's not important, more important is the explosion that follows. BOOM! Buffy gets the sycthe and goes insane, she is let back into the group because she is obviously the leader. We get ready for whats about to come.

17 - Chosen - What else can I say but epic? Faith, Buffy, Anya, Spike, Angel, Xander, Dawn, Willow, Kennedy, Giles, they all did great in this episode. Caleb has to split, some friendly banter between Faith and Wood and a meaningful scene between Bangel, followed by a scene with Spuffy. Buffy knows she is going to win. Willow says some stuff that none of us are sure about, but that's because it's about hers and Kennedy's relationship and lets face it, none of us like that. They go to the new High School and start the fight, Willow is a goddess and everyone else is a slayer, Buffy has an epic speech and many people die, including Anya. Great end to the season and series.

So, do you like this way of looking at it? I know it isn't entirely different, but I think, this way, we can open our eyes more to the fact that it really isn't about single episodes, but more about the season as a whole, and if we can see it that way, some of us might love it even more. Here endeth the lesson.
 
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S
StarSlayer
Although I don't agree with everything, I give you mad props for breaking the season down and seeing how it is awesome :)
Valjavertjinn
Valjavertjinn
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A
Anca
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white avenger
white avenger
THis is my favorite season of the series anyhow, but I agree, dividing it into a series of arcs works fine.
Interesting post, though I already saw it like this, I've never seen it listed in such a way before, so good on you there. My problems with season 7 aren't with the standalone episodes, because they all link together. My issues with season 7 deal with the out of characterness for several of our beloved characters. It also deals with a good 2 season worth of plots, and characters, being shoved at us into one, it just didn't work. We didn't get to know a single one of those characters. Xander, Willow, Anya, Dawn, and Giles all became background noise to Andrew, the Potentials, and Spuffy. Now, I love the latter, and I even like Andrew, but it was just...too much. For the final season, we should have seen more of our original Scoobies, not a bunch of new comers.
I also felt the big bad was badly executed. If he'd wanted to, with the Turok-Han and Caleb, the First could have gone in at any time and killed every one of those potentials, and likely some of the Scoobies. Some might argue that EVERY big bad could have done this, but that wasn't every big bads mission. The Firsts soul mission was to kill Buffy and the potentials, to end the Slayer line, and he could have done that so easily.
The gaping plothole in Chosen bothers me, as well, with the so called "uber-vamps" suddenly being able to be taken down by every Tom, Dick, and Harry in the scene, when the first one nearly killed Buffy. This could have been fixed with a simple word from Giles or someone: "Now, the Turok-Hans we face in battle won't be as strong as the first one Buffy faced, but they will still be stronger than your average vampire." But there was nothing, leaving us with that unignorable plothole.
Don't get me wrong, I don't hate season 7. Joss help me, I could never hate anything BtVS, well, anything that I consider canon (Everything that we saw on TV.) Buffy on a bad day is still better than most television shows on a GREAT day. Having said that, this is my least favourite season of the bunch, though it really has some GREAT moments.
 
Actually, I already saw it that way. I'm a big fan of episodes 1 to 7, great stand-alones and those Potentials are still nowhere to be seen! Unfortunately, The First didn't quite live up to the ominous glimpses it gave us in these episodes.

I think season 7 will always be considered the weakest season simply because it was the only season that didn't focus on (most of) the main characters. That, and the huge mythology issues. I think Andrew was a great addition though.
 
I've always thought of S7 as existing in four chunks.

Lessons-Conversations With Dead People: The Rise From the Ashes

Season 7 starts off very strongly, both on an individual episode basis (Selfless is brilliant; Help, Same Time Same Place and Conversations With Dead People are very strong; Him, while weak, retains that Buffy charm; and Lessons and Beneath You are decent) and as a general feel. The plot is engaging and epic - that last scene in Lessons with the First turning into all the Big Bads in reverse is one of the greatest introductions of a Big Bad on the show. The mystery is very intriguing. There's a very noticable shift away from S6, to a lighter and less oppressively pessimistic tone. The characters seem to remember how to have fun. There's a very strong "back to basics" theme, particularly in that opening episode, which is great for a finale season. Perhaps the greatest thing about this opening quarter is the rebuilding of the character's relationships that were destroyed during S6. Same Time, Same Place is perhaps the greatest example of this. There is a real focus on the trio of Buffy, Xander and Willow, as there should be. Buffy regains some of her warmth and spark that she lost in S6. The show really seems to be returning to what it once was. However...

Sleeper-Showtime: The Crap Hits the Fan

These four episodes pretty much undo everything that the first 7 episodes did, and introduce most of the elements that made the rest of S7 a disaster. Sleeper takes the focus away from Willow and Xander and gives centre stage straight to Spike. From then on, Spike is ridiculously central to everything that happens, eclipsing the rest of the show. Most importantly, we have the introduction of the Potentials. This is by far the most damaging aspect of the entire season, on three fronts. Firstly, the Potentials just get in the way. They don't need to be there, they obscure the other characters and add little. They are the No. 1 factor in the over-saturation of characters in S7. Secondly, they are, to put it simply, annoying (2.5ly: Kennedy). Thirdly, their presence turns Buffy into General Buffy - who as we know then turns into Controlfreak!Ungrateful!Bitch-monster-of-death!Buffy. IMHO of course, but I have never hated a main character in any show like I hate S7!Buffy.

The First Evil, who had had wonderful build-up until this point, was revealed to be completely ineffectual. Its plan loses its way, and it really seems to be making it up as it goes along. The First stops being a mysterious, tricky, terrifying presence and becomes a one-man monologue machine. Its taunting of Spike stops being insightful and seeming to have a point; rather it just seems like forgettable filler. The very reveal that this villain is the First Evil is damaging, because of the memories it brings back - of a villain rendered completely ineffectual if you just ignore it, as Buffy did back in Amends. I spend the rest of the season wondering why everyone doesn't just stick their fingers in their ears until it goes away. Finally, I just want to note the introduction of Andrew - while I like him as a character, he does add to the overload of characters and seems out of place.

Potential-Storyteller: The Wilderness Episodes (or The Last Hurrah)

Here, the season just loses all direction and momentum. The First "goes into remission" for some reason, and the plot just ambles around aimlessly. General Buffy has her worst moments here - inexplicably forgetting all about the events of 'Helpless' and giving the potentials their own Cruciamentum in 'Potential'; calling a suicide victim "stupid and weak" in Get it Done; belittling her friends' contributions in Get it Done, etc. Get it Done and First Date are perhaps the weakest of the season (Get it Done in particular is, IMO, the nadir of the season).

However, it's not all bad. In these episodes, we get our last real focus on characters that aren't Buffy or Spike; on Dawn in Potential (with a nice character moment from Xander), Willow in The Killer in Me, Andrew in Storyteller. These episodes could be considered the last hurrah for those characters that got pretty much nothing to do in the finale. This quarter is aimless and contains some awful episodes, but it's the last time we see any spark of the show's former glory.

Lies My Parents Told Me-Chosen: The Amble Over the Finish Line

Here's where the elements introduced in the second quarter go into overdrive. Most notably, the needless destruction of the Scooby friendships in order to promote Spike and Spuffy. Giles and Buffy's relationship is torn to pieces in LMPTM, and of course we have the whole Empty Places debacle. None of these relationships are ever satisfactorily resolved. The First's nonsensical plan becomes even more convulted with the entrance of Caleb and the Scythe. Every character in the show seems to simultaneously have their brains leak out of their ears, as the plot and characters bend over backwards in order to accommodate increasingly nonsensical developments. Everything that happened was contrived and made little sense. Of course, the plot and characters also have to be twisted and perverted in order to promote Spike and Buffy, in a desperate attempt to "prove" that Buffy is superior to everyone else and nobody should ever dare to question her or her lapdog. Faith appears, but due to the already saturated cast, she is shoved to the side and not used to her full potential. Instead of interesting interactions between her and Xander, Willow, Giles - you know, characters she actually has history with - she is instead saddled with a pointless scene to share with Spike (presumably to just give him more screentime). Angel appears to deliver the Deus Ex Machina, act OOC and add needless drama to Spuffy. All this drama leads absolutely nowhere, and two quick, easy Deus Ex Machinas introduced in the last two episodes (the Scythe and the Amulet), quickly resolve the plot and everybody is happy, the end. In conclusion, the closing episodes of this wonderful show were characterised by OOCness, destruction of wonderful relationships, random drama that led nowhere, over-promotion of Spike, a plot that made absolutely no sense whatsoever and lazy resolutions to wipe up the plot.

"This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang, but a whimper."
 
Tome
Tome
Awesome, awesome post... Really good job. I agree with pretty much everything you said, aside from Buffy.
B
BlasterBoy
This is a bit late but bravo, this is a brilliant post. Practically sums up my thoughts. I always thought S7 was brilliant on paper. The writer's aren't stupid; it sounded good. But it was executed all wrong. great post!
I still don't care much for this season. The characters I loved all developed in ways I never saw coming, and didn't like. Kennedy was annoying from the get-go, I thought, and I think they tried too hard with Dawn. The Empty Places drama really, really annoyed me. That shouldn't happen with family. Family sticks together, no matter what. I count Giles, Xander, and Willow as Buffy's family.

Some of the things that happened seemed too OOC for me. Same Time, Same Place seemed a little odd, considering Willow was terrified to really do magic, but it comes out unwillingly, just that once? And they treated it like a drug addiction last season, which had to be stopped, but now, it's okay? Confusing there. Willow in general bothered me. I hate what they did to her character. Empty Places bothered me with her, yet again.

Some nice Xanya scenes, but I was annoyed that Xander wasn't more upset that she died, or that he'd never really be able to lay her to rest, since her body was swallowed in the Hellmouth. In fact, no one seemed to care that the graveyards were gone. Tara's grave, Joyce's. We didn't see enough of the aftermath, I thought.

Epic battle scenes galore! Not a bad thing. I liked them. And Caleb being split in two was fantastic.

All in all, I still don't care much for this season. It was so incredibly unlike the others, IMO. And all my favorite relationships were obliterated. Tillow, Xanya, Bangel. Like they really wanted to send the message that love doesn't really last, which is depressing.

I have major issues with this season. It's my least favorite.
 
13 - Storyteller - Meh, it's okay. Andrew centric episode, which I hate, lots of Xanya which is really cute and really lovely, but overall it is only an okay episode and the worst of the season by far.

I agree with pretty much everything but this statement. But to each his own...🙂
 
It is an interesting way to look at the season, but it doesn't really change how I feel about it.
 
This doesn't really change anything for me, I always saw the season as having story arcs rather than episodes.

I never really hated s7 though, in fact, for rewatches it's one of my favourites. Maybe it's because this was the only season I saw during its original run, so I got a connection with it, but I actually think it's a pretty good season.
 
Some great posts in this thread...but no, I still hate Season 7 and think "Chosen" is one of the worst Buffyverse finales. It's like eating a great dinner, and then getting burnt cake as dessert.

Angel season 5, "Not Fade Away"? That was a breathtaking finale and one that gave a great show the ending it deserved. One of the greatest I've ever seen on any TV show
 
I have always liked season 7 not as much as season 6. My only problem with it mainly was the potentials i think they should have been more back stories and characters if not there at all. I liked the finale however and it never fails to make me cry. I couldn't imagine how else they would end Buffy. In a way I think it was a perfect ending, if you think about it. I know a lot of people will disagree with me on this. I much prefer this finale then the Angel finale. Always have and always will.
I tend to look at Buffy in different chunks as it is, I don't really like to compare the chunks as i think they are totally different. This probably makes no sense. Seasons 1,2,3 - The high school years... Seasons 4 - The college year... Season 5 - The growing up year... Season 6 - The dark year... Season 7 - The sentimental/wrapping everything up/bringing back of awesome old characters/setting the scene for the buffyverse future year.
 
Great thread Nikita! It is interesting that you have pointed this out because I have been aware pretty much since I watched season 7 the first time, that one of the reasons I didn't like it is because it all blends too much into one.

For a long time I thought this was simply because I watched it all too fast (I bought the boxset on VHS(!!!) and watched it all in the space of a day or so, which I did not do with any other season). So I thought I had just watched it too fast to take it all in. But on subsequent rewatches I still stand by my original thoughts that it has too much of an overall arc and not enough individual storylines. It does have some great stand alone episodes, as you rightly pointed out, mainly at the start of the season (but I'd also class Storyteller as somewhat standalone).

But whereas with seasons 1-6 I can just pull out any random dvd and stick on any random episode and enjoy it, with most of season 7, I can't do that. I feel I have to watch the whole thing. Watching a single episode just isn't quite as enjoyable.
 
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