Which was the cruelest in Conversations?
- Thread starter Joshua
- Start date
Tuppence
Angel of Music
As much as the Cassie/Tara/First scene always gets me all emotional I think the cruelest has to be impersonating Joyce. Not for the message or anything, but for the mere fact of the person it took on. I mean Dawn was 16/17 years old and had lost her Mum at 14 (though technically only months into actually being around) and suddenly she believes her Mum is there, visiting her, which she must have wished for a thousand times since she passed away. The idea of that- thinking you've seen your Mum again only to be left with the doubt that it was a fake- is just so horrible.
itssmiletime
Potential
Willow, for me, was the cruelest, just the way The First talked to her, it was unbelievable, trying to get someone to convince themselves and to manipulate someone dear to her. That gives it the edge over Dawn, imo.
Ethan Reigns
Scooby
The scene where Willow talked to Cassie was notable for being as quiet as you are supposed to be in a library. Nothing scary happened until she morphed into the ball of teeth and disappeared.
Dawn was subjected to something different. The house was trashed in successive blasts of energy and a demon (actually a guy in the same demon suit as Gnarl from Same Time, Same Place 7ABB03) was shown to be attacking Joyce. Joyce was Dawn's mother whereas Cassie was not related to Willow and only claimed to carry a message from Tara.
My vote is for Dawn being subjected to the most cruelty.
Dawn was subjected to something different. The house was trashed in successive blasts of energy and a demon (actually a guy in the same demon suit as Gnarl from Same Time, Same Place 7ABB03) was shown to be attacking Joyce. Joyce was Dawn's mother whereas Cassie was not related to Willow and only claimed to carry a message from Tara.
My vote is for Dawn being subjected to the most cruelty.
BuffyElevated
Scooby
I definitely think Dawn seeing her "mom" was the cruelest. It always felt weird to me that Cassie was the character they chose to appear to Willow. I mean, I know Amber Benson didn't want to do it, but why Cassie Newton, a girl Willow never even knew? Why not Jenny Calendar or someone else?
Nix
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OutForAWalk
Walk Through The Fire
I totally agree. What Dawn went through was so much worse. She was terrorized all night in what was very horror-movie-esque. The demons, the storm, and the destruction of the house, all on top of seeing her mother and thinking her mother's spirit was involved must have been horrifying.
At least Willow figured out it couldn't have been really a message from Tara by the end of her conversation with Cassie.
[MENTION=8356]HisMrs[/MENTION] -- From what I have read, Amber Benson wasn't available to appear in this episode so they chose Cassie's character. I think they picked her because she had recently been introduced to the audience and was fresh in our minds. Someone like Jenny Calendar would have been confusing to those who did not see the 2nd season of the series. Also, it seems like the First favored appearing as the more recently deceased.
BuffyElevated
Scooby
I know Amber wasn't available... She also said she didn't want to taint Tara's character by appearing as an evil character.
And as far as The First appearing as "recently deceased" people, I never got that distinction; I thought The First just wanted to appear as whoever would shake the characters up more, hence coming as Joyce, The Mayor, etc. The First went for the emotional blows more than anything else.
OutForAWalk
Walk Through The Fire
Hmm... yeah you have a point there. The First did appear as all the former villains.
VaderSpike24
Potential
Definitely Willow with Cassie, if Joyce had been proven to be none-first than I'd say her, but she isn't so Dawn has hope that she was real whereas Willow got the elation from thinking she'd talked to the love of her life, followed by a cruel realization that it was hoax, supremely cruel. I can't imagine a worse feeling, especially considering how fresh tara's death was.
The writer may have confirmed that Joyce was the first, although I haven't heard that before. Still, I doubt that said writer confirmed it to Dawn herself, and as we see in later episodes Dawn is unsure as to whether it was her mother or the first.
I think for the viewer, Cassie's conversation with Willow was the cruelest because Tara's death was still relatively fresh. We had been kept a part of Willow's road to recovery dealing with the loss, and to have "Tara" speak to Willow was so touching that when we (and Willow) realized it was The First, it was unspeakable cruelty.
For the characters, I think Joyce's appearance to Dawn was more cruel, thanks to the huge, terrifying buildup of fear from the house going on rampage. Then suddenly, Joyce was there, but she wasn't speaking in the encouraging way Dawn was used to, and instead was basically telling Dawn she was alone in the world.
Yikes.
For the characters, I think Joyce's appearance to Dawn was more cruel, thanks to the huge, terrifying buildup of fear from the house going on rampage. Then suddenly, Joyce was there, but she wasn't speaking in the encouraging way Dawn was used to, and instead was basically telling Dawn she was alone in the world.
Yikes.
Evil Angelus 95
Total Dork
Definitely Willow. As a personal believer that she still hadn't properly gotten over Tara's death at that point, the mere idea that the First would prey upon that is just cruel, and to me, is a definition of Evil.