Who chooses the next Slayer?

[Black Eye Guy]

Well the main reason why I think their not connected is because we got allot of information from the slayer line over the years and there was never even the slightest link between them draw, I am 99% sure that the PtB's haven't even been mentioned on Buffy, have they?

 

[Wicked]

Youre right actually. I think its an Angel invention.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

But we are led to believe that the PTB are omniscient, which due to being in the Angel worlds automatically includes them in the Buffy world.

You see, the description that Jasmine gives of the beginning of time suggests the Powers and all that is Evil were two sides of the same primordial spring. Now, if we take that in the context of the Show written by Joss we can be sure by his idea that there is no 'higher' being in the form of God, rathyer its more evolution, and these entities are the result.

The 'Light' found a way to escape this dimension, leaving behind a new being to 'fight' for them. The Humans.

Now, for me, it seems clear the PTB's still have a vested interest in this world, even though they don't let us in on it, so when they see something, something they can use in their favour, they would.

Angel for instance. They see him as a Champion for their cause, they use him, could be argued as far back as Whistler and then Amends. They they manipulate something done by man(the Gypsy Curse) to help them.

So why not the Slayers.
Shamens, tapping into a magic, a deep powerful thing thats not native to the human world, but seen as 'paranormal' and infuse a human with the power of something opposed to the PTB's.
What made it live on. What made this thing, this essence move along.
Not to someone in the same blood line, but seemingly random girls through out the world. What special marker was born into the 'potentials'.
If its part of that Demon then why does it only pick one girl, and why isnt there some common factor between all these girls, except age(?) and sex?
If its part of the Shamen, where is the evidence that they had enough forsight to place this 'marker' in so many different girls in the first place?
Yes its possible that we haven't been told that the demons essence did this, or the Shamens would cast a Spell to choose the next in line.
BUT then thats just speculation, which then opens the floor. Without evidence just theory, you can suppose that the PTB's saw this and realised the 'potential' of such a Champion.
Guide the Line into its next human host, whoever they feel would either be strong enough to hold the power, or who needed guidance.

Then we also have the Watchers and the Guardians. With these people around, the PTB's don't have to be as prominent as they have a guide against the dark.

My issue is that there are too many variables in the whole situation to dismiss the PTB's as a possible guider of the Line no matter where it comes from.

I think, though this conversation is becoming like the 'Did the PTB's care for Buffy?'.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

............stupid Double Post................

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

But at the end of the day, does it matter who chooses the Slayer, as long as we have a protector, especially as whoever does choose them keeps picking hot ones we can watch often😉

 

[Allycat]

My issue is that there are too many variables in the whole situation to dismiss the PTB's as a possible guider of the Line no matter where it comes from.

True, we can't dismiss them as a possibility, because (depending on interpretation) the circumstances for them to be the ones who choose may be created, HOWEVER we don't have any actual proof whatsoever that they are indeed behind it. Thus, we can't simply assume it's them; if we do believe it's them, this can only be a personal conviction.

But at the end of the day, does it matter who chooses the Slayer...

Ofcourse it doesn't matter that much... but I guess the same kind of argument could be made about pretty much every other thread in the "Inside Out" forum.

 

[postmortem]

Watcher Council ?

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

True, we can't dismiss them as a possibility, because (depending on interpretation) the circumstances for them to be the ones who choose may be created, HOWEVER we don't have any actual proof whatsoever that they are indeed behind it. Thus, we can't simply assume it's them; if we do believe it's them, this can only be a personal conviction.

No one is saying to assume it IS them what i'm saying on the total lack of any evidence in the show to prove either way, don't assume they have no say in the process.

Ofcourse it doesn't matter that much... but I guess the same kind of argument could be made about pretty much every other thread in the "Inside Out" forum.

Quote the whole comment not just the beginning as you will see that its a joke.
If i honestly thought that i wouldn't answer any of these threads.

 

[Schillaci]

NOOOOO! These topics kill me.

Does anybody have any clue as to where Buffy travelled to in Get it Done?

I mean, if we're talking about who chooses each Slayer. It is entirely plausible that the three men that picked the original Slayer decide who next gets the power.

They did start the whole thing.

 

[Schillaci]

Sorry for the double post, but nobody has replied and I have something else to add.

I don't think who becomes the Slayer has anything to do with the PTB.

Mainly, because thematically it doesn't fit with the whole female empowerment.

If each slayer is selected by a higher power, then it somewhat detracts from the point of initially having these three men take a girl and use her.

Taking the power from these men and placing it into the hands of a higher power just doesn't fit.

If Buffy is taking her power back, and sharing it with other women, she has to be taking it from men.

 

[Wicked]

Thats a point actually. We know these men chose a girl and stuck a demon in her to make her the slayer, but why did they choose a girl? I would have thought (especially waaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy back then) they would have chosen a guy.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

Does anybody have any clue as to where Buffy travelled to in Get it Done?

I mean, if we're talking about who chooses each Slayer. It is entirely plausible that the three men that picked the original Slayer decide who next gets the power.

They did start the whole thing.

But there is no evidence to say that eitheris definate. Thats my point. You can assume what you will, but until its stipulated there is room for either theory.

I don't think who becomes the Slayer has anything to do with the PTB.

Mainly, because thematically it doesn't fit with the whole female empowerment.

If each slayer is selected by a higher power, then it somewhat detracts from the point of initially having these three men take a girl and use her.

Taking the power from these men and placing it into the hands of a higher power just doesn't fit.

If Buffy is taking her power back, and sharing it with other women, she has to be taking it from men.

Its not just about her female empowerment its also about her being a single soldier fighting the forces of Darkness against what she actually wants.
The Shadowmen did make the first Slayer there is no contention there, however the idea of the PTB's seeing a new champion they could use, also tiesin with that notion of being forced into a war you would want to be away from.
In the finale she is sticking a giant finger up at the people that created theline, but she could also, in context, be saying to the powers, screw your plans, we are the soldiers we'll do it our way.

Thats a point actually. We know these men chose a girl and stuck a demon in her to make her the slayer, but why did they choose a girl? I would have thought (especially waaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy back then) they would have chosen a guy.

Because by this time Joss had already decided that it was only female Slayers?

 

[Schillaci]

But there is no evidence to say that eitheris definate. Thats my point. You can assume what you will, but until its stipulated there is room for either theory.

Which is why I usually avoid these types of discussions. However, with what we have been shown, I'd say there is more evidence to suggest that the three wise monkeys pick each Slayer. I mean, seriously where did Buffy go in Get it Done?
I initially assumed she travelled back in time, but that makes absolutely no sense.

Its not just about her female empowerment its also about her being a single soldier fighting the forces of Darkness against what she actually wants.
The Shadowmen did make the first Slayer there is no contention there, however the idea of the PTB's seeing a new champion they could use, also tiesin with that notion of being forced into a war you would want to be away from.
In the finale she is sticking a giant finger up at the people that created theline, but she could also, in context, be saying to the powers, screw your plans, we are the soldiers we'll do it our way.

Sure, if you want to see it that way.

We know these men chose a girl and stuck a demon in her to make her the slayer, but why did they choose a girl?

Because by this time Joss had already decided that it was only female Slayers?

I assumed it was because Joss is a pervert..

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

Which is why I usually avoid these types of discussions. However, with what we have been shown, I'd say there is more evidence to suggest that the three wise monkeys pick each Slayer. I mean, seriously where did Buffy go in Get it Done?
I initially assumed she travelled back in time, but that makes absolutely no sense.

Well i must admit that i generally assumed she travelled back to meet the guys...but i can see that could be wrong

Sure, if you want to see it that way.

Well to me, it didnt become a sex thing until it was a rape thing.
Ok its 'one Girl in all the world' but i never though Buffy had an issue with that, it was an issue of the 'one' not the 'girl'....until the explicit nature of the process, then all of a sudden its an assault on woman hood. I kinda really agree with the TWoP synopsis because Marti just couldnt leave that theme alone could shee.

I assumed it was because Joss is a pervert..

Well isnt there a little pervert in us all?

 

[nerd4hire]

Both possibilities may be possible of course, but if we were to ask which is the more likely of the two, and put up the support for either possibility what would we have.

The Shadowmen are responsible for how Slayers are chosen:

1. They are responsible for the magicks used to create the original slayer. If it would be possible to apply any rules to how the line continued, they are the only face we can put to who would be the ones applying them, at the time of the original spell.

2. They are responsibe for the force within the slayer referred to as Buffy's "truest strength". Translation. It's current. What they did 10,000 years ago is still happening, still with the slayer.

3. They have shown an interest in the line of the slayer at the beginning, and also at the end.

4. Their cave is "the source of slayer strength".
"The well of the slayer's power".

5. The writers chose to present the possibillity to us the Shadowmen were connected to the slayer, her creation, and her continuing story.

The Powers That Be of Angel are responsible for how Slayers are chosen


1. I'm not sure I can think of any support, other than some viewers kind of like the idea.

 

[Schillaci]

Well i must admit that i generally assumed she travelled back to meet the guys...but i can see that could be wrong

Ye.

BUFFY
Hello? I'm Buffy. I'm the slayer.
The men are speaking some unrecognizeable language.
RED HAT SHADOW MAN SUBTITLE:
We know who you are.
BLACK HAT SHADOW MAN SUBTITLE:
And we know why you're here.
BROWN HAT SHADOW MAN SUBTITLE:
We've been waiting.
BUFFY
(nods) Good. That's good then. Um, you know, I know we have bigger issues to
deal with, but how'd I understand anything you guys just said? (they look at
each other and stand, not answering) Oh, I know, ancient magicks. I just thought
it was neat.
RED HAT SHADOW MAN SUBTITLE:
(the three men start circling Buffy) We have been here since the beginning.BLACK HAT SHADOW MAN SUBTITLE:
Now, we are almost at the end.

Just with what they say there, I'm pretty sure travelling back in time is not involved.

Well to me, it didnt become a sex thing until it was a rape thing.
Ok its 'one Girl in all the world' but i never though Buffy had an issue with that, it was an issue of the 'one' not the 'girl'....until the explicit nature of the process, then all of a sudden its an assault on woman hood. I kinda really agree with the TWoP synopsis because Marti just couldnt leave that theme alone could shee.

I always thought the 'one' thing was what was important too. Being alone is such a core theme in almost everything Joss does. It's just that whole 'female taking back the night' crap was such a prominent theme in season 7.

Well isnt there a little pervert in us all?

I let my inner pervert out once a month.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

1. They are responsible for the magicks used to create the original slayer. If it would be possible to apply any rules to how the line continued, they are the only face we can put to who would be the ones applying them, at the time of the original spell.

Yes they begin the process, no issuewith that, but there is no real evidence that they have control after that first girl.

2. They are responsibe for the force within the slayer referred to as her "truest strength". Translation. It's current. What they did 10,000 years ago is still happening, still with the slayer.

Thats fine, but why is that? Because they intended that to happen of because something higher helped it along the way.
We are also led to believe that the Shadowmen turned into the Watchers, yet there is no evidence they wield any power of the girls at all, only guide who they find. We don't even know how they know which girl is a potential.

3. They have shown an interest in the line of the slayer at the beginning, and also at the end.

Again, like i say, the First Evil has shown interest in the line along the way....that only proves they have decided to 'watch' something they set in motion....not necessarily control.

4. Their cave is "the source of slayer strength".
"The well of the slayer's power".

Thinking about what PJ just wrote, we aren't even sure of that. We see the Cave as a representation, but now that its thought about, that cave might never have existed, it could be some artificial contruct the PTB's have designed to allow the Slayer Strength to live on after death.

5. The writers chose to present the possibillity to us the Shadowmen were connected to the slayer, her creation, and her continuing story.

Well yes, they also chose to tell us that every event in Angels life had something to do with being that needed to be born through Cordy, kill alot of people then wash that murderous spree away as a hormonal imbalance!!!
I see what you are saying here, i do but the writers have changed many notions we have come to accept as easily as...Vampires can't have Children, lets get Darla pregnant.

The Powers That Be of Angel are responsible for how Slayers are chosen

1. I'm not sure I can think of any support, other than some viewers kind of like the idea.

2. The Powers that Be are Present in the Angel verse so must be in the Buffyverse in some form. We also know the PTB's have a vested interest in the fight against evil.

3. The Show never Specifically states that The Shadowmans actions choose which potential is worthy, its random in nature, yet the Powers use in Angel suggests nothing is random, its all destiny and fate.

4. Whistler is regarded as some formof emissary for the PTB's(debateable granted) but he apparently knew of Buffy's calling at the same time if not slightly before the Council, suggesting something told him....if there is the link with the PTB's they could tell him who the next chosen is......(i know, all supposition but some of your points are 😉 )

Like i say, i'm not gonna change anyones mind who already has an opinion, all i'm saying is, your points could be argued away better and mine argued better(if it wasnt 2.45am) by someone.

 

[nerd4hire]

I only see one point necessary to take issue with

(i know, all supposition but some of your points are 😉 )

Show me one.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

OK

The Shadowmen are responsible for how Slayers are chosen:

1. They are responsible for the magicks used to create the original slayer. If it would be possible to apply any rules to how the line continued, they are the only face we can put to who would be the ones applying them, at the time of the original spell.

There is nothing said in the entire passage that states catagorically that the Shadowmens Spell will specifically locate one particular girl.
I'm not arguing that the Shadowmen didnt plan for this to pass onto a girl, i'm suggesting they left it to random and the PTB's decided to step in and pin-point the girl. So this comment doesnt porve the Shadowmen pick the girl.

The Shadowmen are responsible for how Slayers are chosen:

2. They are responsibe for the force within the slayer referred to as Buffy's "truest strength". Translation. It's current. What they did 10,000 years ago is still happening, still with the slayer.

They are talking about the power, they arent talking about specific girls that it will transfer to.

The Shadowmen are responsible for how Slayers are chosen:

3. They have shown an interest in the line of the slayer at the beginning, and also at the end.

Again, this doesnt mean they have any say who is 'chosen'.

The Shadowmen are responsible for how Slayers are chosen:

4. Their cave is "the source of slayer strength".
"The well of the slayer's power".

And this, does it state they have control over the destination of the line...nope

The Shadowmen are responsible for how Slayers are chosen:

5. The writers chose to present the possibillity to us the Shadowmen were connected to the slayer, her creation, and her continuing story.

Again, the writers chose to let us know that man created the first Slayer, they dont say they have any say i who is chosen.


My issue has never been that they created theline, its that once its left the First Slayer, there is no evidence to prove they have any say in where it goes.
Could it be random, yes. Could it be the Shadowmen, yes. Could it be the PTB's, Yes.

4. Whistler is regarded as some formof emissary for the PTB's(debateable granted) but he apparently knew of Buffy's calling at the same time if not slightly before the Council, suggesting something told him....if there is the link with the PTB's they could tell him who the next chosen is......(i know, all supposition but some of your points are )

This comment is based on the fact Whistler knew of Buffy yet shows no connection with the Watchers, who we are told are the Shadowmen after millenia. He is to help keep the balance between Good and Evil. Which thanks to Jasmine is what we are led to believe is what the PTB's are comfortable with.
So, if the PTB's are passing information onto their helper(?) its plausible to assume they knew the information.
Is it possible they just know because they are omniscient, yes.
Is it possible they know because Buffy Summers was destined to be a Slayer and that destiny is out of their control, yes.
Is it possible that The Powers placed the line in Buffy after the Slayer before died, Yes.

 

[Schillaci]

Could it be random, yes. Could it be the Shadowmen, yes. Could it be the PTB's, Yes.

I'd like to throw another 'suspect' into the mix..

I was thinking about what the venerable master DDLM posted in the Get it Done - Origin of the Slayer thread.

Whats a Horrible thought.
You are assuming that the Demon itself is evil.
Remember what Jasmine said. The Demons(i would assume for something this powerful it would have to be an 'Old One') all 'evolved' from the same place, good and bad.....what if the Demon WAS a Good Demon.....but then taking in context, that same demon could be a PTB itself......

Could it in fact be the spirit of the demon that chooses the next slayer?
It's certainly something to think about.(but not at 5:am...)