Question Who do you think is the best combat fighter among non-mystical humans?
- Thread starter Napoleon
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Gunn. It's not even a question for me.
People like Riley, they're military trained, trained in a room with a bunch of other people. It takes a while for them to be out on the street and get rid of that 'ridgedness' that comes from non-on-the-job training.
Wesley...I don't think Wesley learned anything while he was at the Academy, given his stint on BTVS where he was begging for painkillers or to be knocked out after he was hit once. He learned on the job, in the streets, but he was still more of a book guy and when they moved to W&H he largely went back to being that guy, choosing to fight with smarts and magics rather than brute strength.
Wood, I assume, learned from Crowley (heh), but while he might have learned the moves of a Slayer, he didn't have the Slayer strength to back it up. I think that might have held him back, slowed him down, instead of trying to show off his own strengths.
Gunn grew up on the streets. He had to learn fast otherwise he would have been dead. He had to adapt, he had to outthink whoever he was fighting and he had to not question himself or wonder if this was the fight he was going to lose. I think it's this quality that the others lack - that ability to think on their feet, to NOT think about form and how their arm is positioned. Gunn goes with the flow of the fight, he adapts to the fighter rather than trying to force his own style on someone who wants to eat them and doesn't give a good goddamn about proper form.
Gunn had to fight to survive LONG before he found out about vampires and the rest. He wins hands down every time for me.
People like Riley, they're military trained, trained in a room with a bunch of other people. It takes a while for them to be out on the street and get rid of that 'ridgedness' that comes from non-on-the-job training.
Wesley...I don't think Wesley learned anything while he was at the Academy, given his stint on BTVS where he was begging for painkillers or to be knocked out after he was hit once. He learned on the job, in the streets, but he was still more of a book guy and when they moved to W&H he largely went back to being that guy, choosing to fight with smarts and magics rather than brute strength.
Wood, I assume, learned from Crowley (heh), but while he might have learned the moves of a Slayer, he didn't have the Slayer strength to back it up. I think that might have held him back, slowed him down, instead of trying to show off his own strengths.
Gunn grew up on the streets. He had to learn fast otherwise he would have been dead. He had to adapt, he had to outthink whoever he was fighting and he had to not question himself or wonder if this was the fight he was going to lose. I think it's this quality that the others lack - that ability to think on their feet, to NOT think about form and how their arm is positioned. Gunn goes with the flow of the fight, he adapts to the fighter rather than trying to force his own style on someone who wants to eat them and doesn't give a good goddamn about proper form.
Gunn had to fight to survive LONG before he found out about vampires and the rest. He wins hands down every time for me.
janas
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brinkster130
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thetopher
Member of the Church Of Faith
Season 7 Dawn! 😛
Seriously though, Gunn hands down. 🙂
He had a homemade axe for about 2 and a half seasons and still kicked loads of ass.
He went toe to toe with huge demons on his own.
He charged The Beast of the Apocalypse.
He's killed about a gazillion vampires. He's awesome. 🙂
Wesley was a smart and canny fighter, but he pretty much had to learn and develop throughout the seasons on the show.
Wood...was actually pretty bad considering he was taken in and trained at a young age by a Watcher, he's not that much better than Giles or Xander.
Seriously though, Gunn hands down. 🙂
He had a homemade axe for about 2 and a half seasons and still kicked loads of ass.
He went toe to toe with huge demons on his own.
He charged The Beast of the Apocalypse.
He's killed about a gazillion vampires. He's awesome. 🙂
Wesley was a smart and canny fighter, but he pretty much had to learn and develop throughout the seasons on the show.
Wood...was actually pretty bad considering he was taken in and trained at a young age by a Watcher, he's not that much better than Giles or Xander.
janas
Bangel in the soul
Gunn. Absolutely Gunn.
Wesley is good at fencing, but I think he has learned at the academy, Wes is also good with pistols and guns, but Gunn has learned to defend himself since he was a teenager and his was a fight for survival, type or fight or die.
Wesley is good at fencing, but I think he has learned at the academy, Wes is also good with pistols and guns, but Gunn has learned to defend himself since he was a teenager and his was a fight for survival, type or fight or die.
white avenger
white avenger
I have to go with the herd on this one. Gunn is the most experienced human fighter in the Buffyverse. Probably the closest that he ever came to martial arts training was watching Chuck Norris or Steven Segal in a movie, assuming that he ever had time for movies, but he was an experienced street fighter, and the very fact that he survived at all bespeaks his skill.
Napoleon
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I didn't expect this at all. I thought this was going to be a close vote for Riley and Wood.
---------- Post added at 06:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:35 PM ----------
In my opinion, it's Wood. Gunn has no martial arts training.. Just some hood street fighting. We've seen it on Youtube and real life... Martial artist VS guy from the hood that thinks he's bulletproof. Hood guy gets his ass handed to him before all his hood friends mob the guy and call it a win.
---------- Post added at 06:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:35 PM ----------
In my opinion, it's Wood. Gunn has no martial arts training.. Just some hood street fighting. We've seen it on Youtube and real life... Martial artist VS guy from the hood that thinks he's bulletproof. Hood guy gets his ass handed to him before all his hood friends mob the guy and call it a win.
And Gunn lived on the street his whole life. He's killed hundreds of vampires on his own. He took out a room full of 20+ vampires single-handedly. He's faced demons and all sorts of creatures that he needed no help with.
Wood might have been trained by a Watcher, but until he moved to Sunnydale, there's no evidence of him actually using any of his training. He has his own squad of Slayers in S8, but, again, there's no evidence of him actually fighting - he's taken on a Watcher's role, it seems.
Gunn will always win, hands down for me, because the evidence is right there on the screen.
white avenger
white avenger
All that we ever saw Wood do was stake a couple of vampires in an alley on one occasion. We saw Spike have to rescue him when he went on a patrol with Spike and Buffy. Beyond that, we haven't seen him really do anything impressive.
Riley presumably had standard military training, including hand to hand, but with most of the emphasis put on weapons, and, contrary to the Chuck Norris "Delta Force" movies, that doesn't make you a martial arts master. If what he did to Angel is any real indication, I would say that he is good, but not extraordinary.
Everything that Gunn learned was from practical experience, enforced by the notion that any mistake that he made would almost certainly be fatal. The fact that he survived on the streets, living the way that he did, attests to his skill far better than anything that we ever saw Riley or Wood do.
brinkster130
Riley's BFF
Robb Stark
King in the North
Well, Gunn appears to be by far the best fighter against supernatural opponents. He deals very well with vampires, who fight mostly like humans. By contrast, Riley and Wood don't do especially well against monsters and Xander obviously isn't a contender.
If we're talking about the best fighter amongst each other, I would give the edge overwhelmingly to Riley. Gunn is very impressive, yes, and Riley never really seems to get the demon-hunting thing down, but to be an elite special forces commando means you have to be exceedingly tough. Like, Navy SEAL tough. Joss showed zero understanding whatsoever about the military, so it's entirely possible that he didn't think that through, but SEAL type guys really are the best fighters in the world. Maybe Riley isn't that, but I have a hard time making sense of him if he has that position and isn't a truly exceptional hand-to-hand combatant.
If we're talking about the best fighter amongst each other, I would give the edge overwhelmingly to Riley. Gunn is very impressive, yes, and Riley never really seems to get the demon-hunting thing down, but to be an elite special forces commando means you have to be exceedingly tough. Like, Navy SEAL tough. Joss showed zero understanding whatsoever about the military, so it's entirely possible that he didn't think that through, but SEAL type guys really are the best fighters in the world. Maybe Riley isn't that, but I have a hard time making sense of him if he has that position and isn't a truly exceptional hand-to-hand combatant.
brinkster130
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SiegePerilous02
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Gunn is the biggest unsung hero in the Buffyverse. Taking out an entire room of vamps solo is probably the one most badass thing any of the powerless characters ever did. Sure, Riley took out quite a few in that crypt, but let's not forget he cheated with a grenade 😛 (Which is also still pretty hardcore, now that I think about it).
But I'm surprised we haven't seen anyone mention Holtz yet. I mean, he took out all those armed Wolfram and Hart agents with nothing but a sword, and he could hold his own against Angelus, Darla and their friends in his day. Dude was a certified badass.
But I'm surprised we haven't seen anyone mention Holtz yet. I mean, he took out all those armed Wolfram and Hart agents with nothing but a sword, and he could hold his own against Angelus, Darla and their friends in his day. Dude was a certified badass.
Napoleon
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Because Holtz is mystical. The same reason Lindsey is mystical. Sure, Lindsey was an excellent swordsman even without his mystical demon strength, like Lorne said. But Lindsey and Holtz passed as mystical.
---------- Post added at 09:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 PM ----------
Holtz was sealed away in a statue and that stopped his aging. Lindsey also had some magical stuff done to him which enabled him to go toe to toe with Angel, although that magic boost did get removed. But still, Holtz and Lindsey passed as mystical. I mean those that stayed "regular" human.
---------- Post added at 09:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 PM ----------
Holtz was sealed away in a statue and that stopped his aging. Lindsey also had some magical stuff done to him which enabled him to go toe to toe with Angel, although that magic boost did get removed. But still, Holtz and Lindsey passed as mystical. I mean those that stayed "regular" human.
SiegePerilous02
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Hmm, I guess I see your point. It's been a while since I've watched the episodes in question. Was it stated that the spell that preserved Holtz altered him in any way beyond bringing him to the present?
I know Lindsey did all that freaky crap with the tattoos and stuff, and who knows what else between his departure and return, so I knew not to include him.
thetopher
Member of the Church Of Faith
Gunn vs. Wood: Gunn has got both experience and youth over Wood, he's stronger and tougher and can go toe-to-toe with vamps. Wood might be faster, but there's no doubt in my mind that Gunn's 'street fighting' technique would come out on top.
Yeah, I forgot about Holtz.
Holtz was pretty good, but he wasn't supernatural. The spell preserved him and brought him forward in time, suspended. He had just killed a crapload of vampires over his lifetime, was it over a thousand? I can't remember.
Holtz vs. Gunn would be a very interesting fight, since they've both been fighting vampires their entire lives.
Also, I know Riley gets a lot of hate, but he did take on Angel and give him a fairly tough fight, which was more than Gunn ever could.
Actually... Riley (S4) should be discounted, 'cause he was juiced up on steroids and stuff right? Still, that's 'none mystical' aid, which is what the question stipulates...
Any thoughts?
Yeah, I forgot about Holtz.
Holtz was pretty good, but he wasn't supernatural. The spell preserved him and brought him forward in time, suspended. He had just killed a crapload of vampires over his lifetime, was it over a thousand? I can't remember.
Holtz vs. Gunn would be a very interesting fight, since they've both been fighting vampires their entire lives.
Also, I know Riley gets a lot of hate, but he did take on Angel and give him a fairly tough fight, which was more than Gunn ever could.
Actually... Riley (S4) should be discounted, 'cause he was juiced up on steroids and stuff right? Still, that's 'none mystical' aid, which is what the question stipulates...
Any thoughts?
