Who Do You Think the Big Bad is? (Major spoiler for current issue # 9)

[nerd4hire]

Here he is then. Twilight.

OK so I'm going to say the font is like something for a character out of an epic poem.

He's wearing some kind of battle armour. Some are going to say ninjaesque, I'll bet.

I'm going to go in a different direction. I've been thinking there's been some hints at norse mythology in Season 8. I think Thricewise is a reference to the Jotund giants. Trafalgar reminds me of dwarfs from stuff like Grieg's Peer Gynt. You know - Hall of the Mountain King.

So with that in mind the first thing I thought of when I saw Twilight was Loki. Specifically Loki from the comic The Mighty Thor. There's something called Ragnorok in Norse Mythology. It's the final apopalyptic battle of the Gods. In the comic Loki is the leader of the other side. Ragnorak is also called Twilight of the Gods.

Well maybe not exactly Loki, but something Loki-ish, I think.

That's one opinion, anyway. Got something better?

If not Loki, or a Loki clone I thought it could maybe be a woman. That would be tricky.

Hey, how'd he get Spike's jacket? 😉

 

[Tranquillity]

Hey, how'd he get Spike's jacket? 😉

I thought the exact same thing as i read the final page. I like your norse mythology theory. it's very clever. I was just thinking that he (she? it?) looked like those robot things in Angel's "Lineage".

 

[Ashxking]

Im going for a rouge Watcher. Someone who knows the dangers of magic and what it can do. A person who wants to rid the world of demons once and for all.

 

[Clem Rocks]

Hey, how'd he get Spike's jacket? 😉

Seeing as it's being hinted that in issue two of After The Fall, Spike's in hell, i'd say it's Twilight that sent him there, stole his coat, and went off to go after the Slayers

And seeing as you think it might be a woman, maybe it's Nikki Wood getting her coat back 😉

 

[Allycat]

Like I said in the official discussion thread for #9, I think Twilight looks a bit like The Redeemer from Spawn (but without the wings) or Darth Revan from Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic.

I still very much doubt that the person beneath the mask is someone we know. On the one hand, it could make for an emotional reveal when we find out who it really is, but on the other hand, like some of this month's letter said, the shouldn't be rehashing old stories all the time.

What struck me as very important is "bringing the age of magic to a close"... could this have anything to do with Fray possibly?

 

[goldenboy]

Here he is then. Twilight.

OK so I'm going to say the font is like something for a character out of an epic poem.

The font looks fairly Celtic to me, for whatever that's worth.

 

[Clem Rocks]

The more i think about my Nikki Wood idea, the more it seems to make sense. The woman that was talking to Twilight had the insignia on her hand, there hasn't been much use of insignias in Buffy/Angel, except for the Circle of the Black Thorn. The Senior Partners could have brought her back, sent her after Spike whom she recovered "her" coat from(not knowing it wasn't the same coat), then after sending Spike to hell, went of the take on the girl who as involved with her murderer, and the girl who was dating her son and broke his heart (maybe).

 

[Allycat]

True, but aren't there Norse roots to that?

Nope. Celtic and Norse do share a common-ancestor in Indo-European. Norse belongs to the Germanic languages. They are however, no more related than modern day Italians and Swedish for instance.

The idea that Twilight has some ties to Celtic myth is interesting given that the Slayer HQ is in Scotland, which is a Celtic area.

 

[nerd4hire]

nerd4hire agrees: True, but aren't there Norse roots to that?

I guess I should have clicked your link before posting, huh GB.

What I was thinking was more the Norse raids along the coast of the British Isles, later in the British history and how those influenced the mythology, and culture. I think what I was thinking was the font looks a little runic

 

[Kean]

I guess I should have clicked your link before posting, huh GB.

What I was thinking was more the Norse raids along the coast of the British Isles, later in the British history and how those influenced the mythology, and culture. I think what I was thinking was the font looks a little runic

The font looks alot like the old Irish alphabet Irish Alphabet there are some slight differences but it's
definitely celtic, it seems almost that two styles were thrown together, the T and A are slightly off.

 

[nerd4hire]

You guys got me interested, so I had to do some quick-browse research.

The history of calligrapy is pretty fascinating stuff, isn't it. There's all this cross pollination of different cultures. And yeah there is Viking influence of Celtic culture. At This Link they go into Norse and Runic influence on early Celtic writing. But later Celtic writing appears to be more influenced by the romans.

Still...

In the beginning of the 6th century (A.D.), manuscript writing (using the Roman script) came into use, and Ireland experienced a literary renaissance. Learning and reading were promoted, and Celtic intellect flourished. Unfortunately, after being spared of vast enemy invasion for many centuries, Ireland was subject to the attack of the Vikings in the 8th century. With this incursion came the introduction of other linguistic forms into Irish, thus diluting the ancient Celtic language from its original form (this Viking influence can still be seen today in Irish Gaelic in the numerous words of Scandinavian origin

Language - Mezzofanti.org

But then it was going both ways.

The Vikings took back to Scandinavia with them portable Celtic art, which enabled the copying of Irish objects and design in Scandinavia. Thus, the Vikings can be attributed to the proliferation of the style of Celtic metalwork.

http://www.unc.edu/celtic/catalogue/brooches/essaypage.html

However I'm not sure that Twilight font does have Celtic origins. Here's a bunch of fonts that have what they're calling Germanic origins.

Viking Fonts & Art

and here's one that's 14th century Scandinavian.

http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/graphics/pagecontent/ElucidariusIcelandicMssEarly14thCent.gif

(There's more HERE)

The capital letters fit there, as well as the small letter a. Did you notice in Twilight's font all letters are capitalized except a? I wonder why that is.

All I know is when I saw that font the first thing I thought of was like epic stories of heroes and myth. I'm thinking now Germanic, whatever that means exactly. 🙂

I wonder if there's a way to find out exactly what that Twilight font is.

 

[tommy]

Twilight does look similar to the androids we saw on Angel, yeah. I suppose it could be related. I don't remember if it was revealed who sent the androids, but they had stolen knowledge from the now-defunct watcher's council and wanted something from Wolfram & Hart too. That could all be part of a bigger plan with Twilight as their master. Things are rarely what they look like though, so I guess Twilight is something new and we'll just have to wait to find out. It wouldn't be Buffy if it was predictable.

 

[Allycat]

It would make sense if Twilight were an android of some kind. Magic vs Technology is a pretty common theme in fiction (Full Metal Alchemist). Although, I can't remember if it was ever confirmed, it's commonly accepted that Lindsey and Eve sent the cyborg-assassins, right? There even is a slight bit of resemblance between those androids and Twilight's suit and mask.

Anyway, all in all, I think the most important aspect of Twilight that should help us figure out who he/she/it is his goal. He wants to end the age of magic. That makes me think that he/she/it isn't magical him/her/itsself (okay, this is getting annoying, I'm gonna go ahead and use he for the time being). From the way he talked about Roden and Gigi, it's pretty obvious that his plans won't stop at destroying the Slayers.

1. Now that we know there's more military involved than just Voll's group, do you think Twilight's followers were mentioned in Season 7? In the episode where Riley showed up with his wife, his wife told Willow that they had some mystics then OD'ed on the black magic like she did, and that she was strong to come back from it. Now assuming that meant they went all black eyed and veiny, do you think Roden could have been involved with them? Not everyone when they get alot of magic goes black eyed and veiny, i don't remember it ever happening to Amy, and i know it didn't happen to Giles when he came back to fight Willow (although that can be argued that he wasn't using black magic). And if the military and mystics from that episode are working for Twilight, and knowing that it has been said that Riley might be in season 8 at some point, do you think Riley could be one of Twilight's followers?

Here's Sam's quote from episode 6.15 "As You Were".

SAM: Hey Willow. I'm sorry, I think I really ... stepped in it in there. (Willow not looking at her) You know, back in the jungle ... we had not one, but two hard-core shamans working for us ... they were working the dark magicks, and ... got addicted. And now they're gone. (Willow turns to look at her) Gone ... as in ... there's nothing left. I've never met anyone with enough strength to quit before.

I'm afraid she doesn't mean all black and veiny, I'm gather there's as much of those shamans left as there was of Darla after giving birth. Though the idea you bring up is interesting. It could be that Twilight himself use to be a shaman like that, with guilt-issues over the amount of destruction his magic-addiction has caused. His mask could be a Vader-esque thing.

2. Seeing as it now looks like Twilight is floaty feet guy from issue 1, do you think that Twilight can fly/float for a long time without needing a break, or is the mountain that he is on (That looks like a volcano to me) pretty close to the Slayer's castle?

I dunno, but it doesn't look like a very Scottish landscape to me. It looks more like South-America. Are there even flat-top mountains like that? If it is, that still doesn't tell us a whole lot about Twilight's floating/flying ability. Last time he appeared was in LWH and I think that's set a couple weeks before the last scene of NNFY. I do have one question about this ability of his. If he hates all things magical, I'm assuming he's not going to use it himself... so how's he floating?

3. Did we ever find out what happened to Voll? One minute he was talking to Buffy, the next he's never heard of again. Did the slayers capture him? kill him? let him go? or do we just don't know yet?

We don't know yet. I think they have must him locked up somewhere.

EDIT:

I did some research on Wikipedia and it turns out the landscape might be a little more Scottish than I'd imagined. There are mountains that reach into the clouds afterall and the lush plant-life on the sides is not uncommon either. However, I couldn't find many of them that are flat-topped and steep-sided. In fact, I've only really found one such candidate:
Ben Vane

 

[Ashxking]

Wouldn't the old watchers HQ have tons of mystic defences? How could one guy walk in place a bomb and leave. Im still going for a Rouge watcher. PTB havn't realy helped out Buffy or Angel much. They just see humans as slightly better than pure blood demons.

 

[Kean]

You guys got me interested, so I had to do some quick-browse research.

The history of calligrapy is pretty fascinating stuff, isn't it. There's all this cross pollination of different cultures. And yeah there is Viking influence of Celtic culture. At This Link they go into Norse and Runic influence on early Celtic writing. But later Celtic writing appears to be more influenced by the romans.

Still...



Language - Mezzofanti.org

But then it was going both ways.



http://www.unc.edu/celtic/catalogue/brooches/essaypage.html

However I'm not sure that Twilight font does have Celtic origins. Here's a bunch of fonts that have what they're calling Germanic origins.

Viking Fonts & Art

and here's one that's 14th century Scandinavian.

http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/graphics/pagecontent/ElucidariusIcelandicMssEarly14thCent.gif

(There's more HERE)

The capital letters fit there, as well as the small letter a. Did you notice in Twilight's font all letters are capitalized except a? I wonder why that is.

All I know is when I saw that font the first thing I thought of was like epic stories of heroes and myth. I'm thinking now Germanic, whatever that means exactly. 🙂

I wonder if there's a way to find out exactly what that Twilight font is.

I found This site but I couldn't copy the text but if you have it scanned onto your computer you could try it. I browsed through the some of the Celtic and Viking fonts and found This Font. It's still not perfect, the W,U,M,Y and V are abit off but there are no V,W,Yand Q in the Irish language but that doesn't explain the differences with the M and U. But like you mentioned the text was written completely in caps which was an Irish tradition, including the A, it just has a longer head on it I think.

 

[anyatara]

I have no idea what he is 😛

Hey, how'd he get Spike's jacket? 😉

I never noticed that! He stole it 😱 😛

 

[nerd4hire]

A poll would be fun here, I think, so I added one.

 

[Kean]

🙂I'm not even going to pretend to know anything about comics cuz I don't but the caps thing just seemed important to the font...but like I said I'm so not knowledge girl when it comes to comics so it's very likely that it means nothing!

 

[nerd4hire]

Did you notice this from your link?

In designing Omnia, Karlgeorg Hoefer was inspired by the all-caps handwriting of the 3rd-9th centuries.

Apparently all-caps isn't just Celtic, it's a time period. I wonder if that matters? Again, because they always use all-caps in Buffy 8 it would be hard to attach significance. I wonder though, if maybe that's why they didn't capitalize the a. To attract our attention to it, and give us something else to drive us crazy trying to figure out. 🙂

 

[tommy]

I voted for Something, or somebody else. "Gee, can you vague that up for me?"