Firefly had what? half a season. And its one of Joss's most popular works.
Point is all Joss' shows have that cult quality that AoS just doesn't have imo.
But no one was saying that in the summer after Firefly aired and was canceled - some people were absolutly, but Firefly got most of it's fans in DVDs and stuff.
We look back at it now in a different way than when it aired.
AoS will absolutly have the same cult quality, I agree the SHOW itself doesn't serseve that Firefly level, but it's 1 part of the overall Marvel machine. Maybe why I enjoy it so much is I view it not just as a show, but as an element of the entire Marvel universe and the coolness/cult factor gets passed down to that.
It's very mainstream, risk averse, I would say the first half of S1 was even bland. Especially if you consider that this is a sci-fi/comic book-type show. Arrow has taken more risks than AoS.
Well it is and it isn't, they had to build a universe for the show within a universe we already know, all while knowing they can't touch on their main story yet as it's going to tie into a movie thats part of one of the most creative cinematic ventures of all time.
Just being part of that whole thing takes it out of the mainstream.
I dont see how it's anymore mainstream than Buffy was, with it's monster of the week. AoS was doing the exact same for the first few episodes. I complained about that, as I'm not a fan of that type of show, but it didn't stay that type of show which is whats important.
Each of those 1 off episodes set up a bad guy to come back at a later date.
Joss is about as involved with AoS as he was with seasons 6 and 7 of Buffy (i.e directing the odd episode, but leaving most of the writing to other talent). He knows some of the direction and his name is as 'Executive Producer'. Therefore it is a Whedon show.
I honestly dont believe that, he's EP cuz he helped found the idea for the show, but the Kuzuis were EPs on Buffy and had no involvement with the show.
But there hasn't been anything that really says Whedon is actually involved, it's quite clear this is Jed and Maurissa's baby.
I'd be so pissed if I were Jed or Maurissa, Whedon gets all the credit, but this is absolutely their project. If you see them in interviews they talk about their creative vision for the show, they aren't executing Whedons it's theirs.
I also think thats a good thing, one of the problems I had with Dollhouse was nothing surprised me, I was so used to Whedons style that it was almost formulaic, that doesn't make for great TV.
The complaint that 90% of people made about Dollhouse is that it was too hard to follow.
That's why Fox told Joss to re-write the pilot- to make it simpler.
that wasn't my experience. Fox may have asked him to redo the pilot cuz they thought people would find it hard to follow, but I remember discussing the show here when it aired, in my experience the problem 90% of people had was that they didn't care.
You couldn't get invested in the main character cuz she didn't exist. Echo kept getting wiped and was replaced by the new person, of there's no character there to invest in there's no one to follow along with, the most cohesive characters were the ones running the Dollhouse who were considered the bad guys.
Thats one thing I think SHIELD did perfect, the Marvel verse was already established, we know it, we could have been told this story from Coulsons perspective. But we didn't really know Coulson, his screen time in the pilot was more than we'd seen him in all the movie cameos, and Coulson was a SHIELD insider. So we got to latch onto Skye, who was an outside, but cockily thought she knew this world - she was the perfect vehicle for the viewer who was an outside but felt like they knew what SHIELD was from movie cameos.
And if you didn't like Skye there were characters like Fitz and Simmons who were insiders but lower than the others so were still in a way outsiders.
For people that knew more about SHIELD from comics, you have Mey and Ward to grab onto and roll your eyes at the newbie asking questions - I thought the whole set up was brilliant.
As somebody who right now is involved in a re-watch of Dollhouse I don't begin to recognise the show you're describing. In terms of writing, characterisation, plot twists and wit Dollhouse is streets ahead of AoS- and its had about as many episodes.
I also dont recognise that show. the only stand outs from Dollhouse for me were the actors that played Sierra and Victor and the episode where Thopher dolls himself a friend. Eliza wasn't strong enough in the role, I dont remember any stand out writing and characterisation was it's biggest downfall as it didn't have any - something the writers have spoken about since.
Faith showing up outside the Mayor's office was so a twist, because it wasn't expected but it made a sort of sense in hindsight. It was a character-twist in that it affected a character you had some investment in.
Same with Buffy dying, not many people knew at the time that Buffy was going to die, but looking back through the season the signs are all there- right back from 'Fool For Love' through to 'Weight Of The World'
Angel being Angelus was a plot twist that made little overall sense to the plot of the episode. It doesn't really made any sense if you squint at it hard enough. Same with the AoS heel/turn, there's no real 'aah, of course' moment with clues leading to that conclusion. It's just a 'wow, damn, where did that come from.' moment
they are all twists but they are BtVS version of a twist, if you look at shows that excel at twists (24, Scandal, etc) they are draw dropping, mind blowing twists, BtVS never had that level of a twist, and I think SHIELD pulled off that level of a twist last season.
The AoS pilot was probably better than the three episodes after it combined. It had wit, characterisation and a couple of nice, sparkling exchanges that was sorely lacking from pretty much every episode afterwards apart from the finale.
I've watched season 1 twice and I can barely remember the plot of episode one, or any scenes in particular, but I can remember scenes and characters and the bad guy set ups from the stand alone episodes after. The general consensus from reviews at the time was the pilot was a bit blah.
Agreed the iconic scene of Bruce Wayne's parents getting gunned down was fluffed badly, but all the original stuff was spot on- mostly the casting and acting.
Yeah, I'm less interested in it being a good depiction of the original than I am with it being entertaining. It was very poorly done, it looked like it was shot for a web series - just that bit in particular, just the set up, the shooting, the blood, the timing and the scream, it was very poorly produced.
The actor who played Gordon was solid without being preachy or boring- a good cop in an impossible situation,
As a big fan of The OC I'm so on board with Ben in this role, one of the reasons I was so excited for it. but that set up "good cop in a bad situation" is the most mainstream sounding premise of a show, and they absolutely dived right into it in his first scene.
Maybe go and watch the whole episode before judging it completely. 🙂
I will, I expect to like it and watch the whole season. I'm not saying it was bad, I just thought it was very on par with AoS's pilot, a pilot should never be a shows best episode. Gotham is going to go the exact same way as SHIELD, I absolutely bet the next few episodes are going to be very mainstream, stand along, procedural episodes as they map out their world. Goham wont have a big mid season shift thanks to a movie tie in, it's big moment was over and done with in killing the Waynes, we know have to watch Gordon hunt down and catch young versions of DC character and watch them get away to go on and fight batman one day. I love the idea of Gotham, but the show is absolutely a mainstream cop show with a batman twist.
I'm in agreement on the fact that I don't know how anybody cannot like the Winter Soldier- it had pretty much had everything. Action, humour, plot (as much as you can hope for in a comic-book film)
Right! Taake you crazy.
