burrunjor
Scooby
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2018
- Messages
- 1,002
- Age
- 35
James Marsters? Julian McMahon, or Mark Sheppard?
Probably a stupid question to ask on a Buffy board LOL, but an interesting comparison can be made between these three guys.
All three of them shot to fame playing a demonic, evil character on a classic turn of the millenium fantasy series, Cole from Charmed in McMahon's case and Crowley from Supernatural in Sheppard's. In all three cases these characters were only supposed to be minor villains as part of a small arc (that didn't even cover a season.) However in all three cases the actors were so charismatic, funny, sexy, and dynamic they were all made regulars and soon stole the show.
At first they were all unquestionably the most popular characters. On the one hand their sarcasm and humour stopped the shows from becoming too mopey, on the other their villainous natures brought a real unpredictable edge to the show, and finally they also added a bit more nuance by giving us a vampire/demon character that we could like, when they were previously all monsters.
However as time went on, they all became a bit weaker in various ways simply to justify keeping them around. Spike got the shit kicked out of him and tortured A LOT, Cole became quite pathetic in his stalking Phoebe, and Crowley became a moron. Also many others felt they either ended up taking over the show too much, or their arcs didn't quite pan out in the end, especially Cole and Crowley. All three actors however went on to have great careers after, but all three were kind of typecast in pretty much exactly the same types of roles. All three tended to get cast as morally grey characters. Either heroes who have a really dark side like McMahon's role in Bait, a fantastic Shark film, or villains who end up having redemptive arcs like James roles in Torchwood and Smallville, or guys who could switch between being evil and good like pretty much all of Mark's roles LOL.
Question is however, which one do you like best? I'm honestly not sure. Buffy and Angel definitely mean more to me than either Supernatural or Charmed, so James has a big advantage that way, and I've also had the pleasure of meeting James who is an awesome guy. Also James I feel has been the most devoted to the show and his fans over the years too, though to be fair the other two as we'll see have reason to not be so peachy about it.
Still that said I do think Mark is better at comedy than either of the other two, whilst Julian I think maybe is more of a conventional lead and can perhaps do things the others can't that way? For instance no way could Mark have played the character in Bait which if you haven't seen it, it's a brilliant horror movie. He's a bit too off kilter for that. James similarly, I don't know I think maybe he's a bit more niche? Granted of the three McMahon has had more mainstream leading roles, so maybe that's why we think that, or maybe that's why he's had more leading roles LOL. You can never tell. I think James meanwhile is the best when it comes to playing out and out villains. He is really good at being vicious as seen with Spike at his worst and Brianiac. I don't think Julian can quite conjur up that nastiness on screen, and Mark physically isn't as intimidating. James when he wants can look like a little vicious thug that would stab you in the eye LOL. (Again though I think that's maybe why he couldn't have done the part in Bait, that whilst more morally grey than the average leading man, still needed to look like more of a lovable rogue and not be quite as gritty as James.)
Overall I think they probably balance each other out as actors to be honest. All 3 of them should be cast in something together, maybe as a group of shady criminals who get caught up in some supernatural crisis beyond their control and have to try and escape, and maybe hate each other, have old feuds to settle, but who are not all bad etc. Would be a great film.
In terms of their most iconic roles, well I'm going to say that Spike, surprisingly despite my issues with the Spuffy romance was probably the best developed at least. Despite the crap they put him through, his story came to a great end on Angel, and to be honest even the comics didn't f*ck up his story either. Cole sadly had an awful ending in season 5 of Charmed that actually made the main characters more unsympathetic than him, whilst Crowley had a similarly anti climactic ending (though I did think Dean wanting him brought back and toasting him was really, really cool.)
To be fair like I said, both McMahon and Sheppard hated how their characters ended, which could explain why they don't want to talk about it. Also apparently they had a bad time making the last few seasons too as they felt out with the producers, though McMahon reportedly fell out with Alyssa Milano and thought she was a nightmare, hence why when he returned a few years later, all his scenes had to be with Holly Marie Combs instead.
Also special shout out to Kevin Tod Smith who played Ares on Xena. He was the original version of this type of character, with his Ares being a similar bad guy who was only supposed to have a minor presence, but who was so popular he became the main villain of both Xena and its parent show. Ares also like Spike went back and forth between being a good guy and a bastard, and he also like Spike on the show starring a female hero came over as more flawed, complex, sympathetic and went through worse situations because he wanted to shag the female hero basically LOL and did heroic things to try and impress her, whilst on the show with the male hero (Hercules) he was more of a petty asshole who was jealous of the main hero and started out as a legtimately threatening bad guy but then became a petty, jealous git LOL.
Kevin was absolutely amazing in the role and I'm sure would have at least gone on to have a great role in genre films and shows. He'd have made a pretty good Master actually as he had the look and could have given us a Delgado type of Master, who was as charming as he was sadistic.
Sadly poor Kevin was killed in an accident not long after finishing Xena, so we'll never know if he'd have been the fourth of these guys who are stuck playing morally grey characters or if he'd maybe have broken free and become a conventional leading man.
Probably a stupid question to ask on a Buffy board LOL, but an interesting comparison can be made between these three guys.
All three of them shot to fame playing a demonic, evil character on a classic turn of the millenium fantasy series, Cole from Charmed in McMahon's case and Crowley from Supernatural in Sheppard's. In all three cases these characters were only supposed to be minor villains as part of a small arc (that didn't even cover a season.) However in all three cases the actors were so charismatic, funny, sexy, and dynamic they were all made regulars and soon stole the show.
At first they were all unquestionably the most popular characters. On the one hand their sarcasm and humour stopped the shows from becoming too mopey, on the other their villainous natures brought a real unpredictable edge to the show, and finally they also added a bit more nuance by giving us a vampire/demon character that we could like, when they were previously all monsters.
However as time went on, they all became a bit weaker in various ways simply to justify keeping them around. Spike got the shit kicked out of him and tortured A LOT, Cole became quite pathetic in his stalking Phoebe, and Crowley became a moron. Also many others felt they either ended up taking over the show too much, or their arcs didn't quite pan out in the end, especially Cole and Crowley. All three actors however went on to have great careers after, but all three were kind of typecast in pretty much exactly the same types of roles. All three tended to get cast as morally grey characters. Either heroes who have a really dark side like McMahon's role in Bait, a fantastic Shark film, or villains who end up having redemptive arcs like James roles in Torchwood and Smallville, or guys who could switch between being evil and good like pretty much all of Mark's roles LOL.
Question is however, which one do you like best? I'm honestly not sure. Buffy and Angel definitely mean more to me than either Supernatural or Charmed, so James has a big advantage that way, and I've also had the pleasure of meeting James who is an awesome guy. Also James I feel has been the most devoted to the show and his fans over the years too, though to be fair the other two as we'll see have reason to not be so peachy about it.
Still that said I do think Mark is better at comedy than either of the other two, whilst Julian I think maybe is more of a conventional lead and can perhaps do things the others can't that way? For instance no way could Mark have played the character in Bait which if you haven't seen it, it's a brilliant horror movie. He's a bit too off kilter for that. James similarly, I don't know I think maybe he's a bit more niche? Granted of the three McMahon has had more mainstream leading roles, so maybe that's why we think that, or maybe that's why he's had more leading roles LOL. You can never tell. I think James meanwhile is the best when it comes to playing out and out villains. He is really good at being vicious as seen with Spike at his worst and Brianiac. I don't think Julian can quite conjur up that nastiness on screen, and Mark physically isn't as intimidating. James when he wants can look like a little vicious thug that would stab you in the eye LOL. (Again though I think that's maybe why he couldn't have done the part in Bait, that whilst more morally grey than the average leading man, still needed to look like more of a lovable rogue and not be quite as gritty as James.)
Overall I think they probably balance each other out as actors to be honest. All 3 of them should be cast in something together, maybe as a group of shady criminals who get caught up in some supernatural crisis beyond their control and have to try and escape, and maybe hate each other, have old feuds to settle, but who are not all bad etc. Would be a great film.
In terms of their most iconic roles, well I'm going to say that Spike, surprisingly despite my issues with the Spuffy romance was probably the best developed at least. Despite the crap they put him through, his story came to a great end on Angel, and to be honest even the comics didn't f*ck up his story either. Cole sadly had an awful ending in season 5 of Charmed that actually made the main characters more unsympathetic than him, whilst Crowley had a similarly anti climactic ending (though I did think Dean wanting him brought back and toasting him was really, really cool.)
To be fair like I said, both McMahon and Sheppard hated how their characters ended, which could explain why they don't want to talk about it. Also apparently they had a bad time making the last few seasons too as they felt out with the producers, though McMahon reportedly fell out with Alyssa Milano and thought she was a nightmare, hence why when he returned a few years later, all his scenes had to be with Holly Marie Combs instead.
Also special shout out to Kevin Tod Smith who played Ares on Xena. He was the original version of this type of character, with his Ares being a similar bad guy who was only supposed to have a minor presence, but who was so popular he became the main villain of both Xena and its parent show. Ares also like Spike went back and forth between being a good guy and a bastard, and he also like Spike on the show starring a female hero came over as more flawed, complex, sympathetic and went through worse situations because he wanted to shag the female hero basically LOL and did heroic things to try and impress her, whilst on the show with the male hero (Hercules) he was more of a petty asshole who was jealous of the main hero and started out as a legtimately threatening bad guy but then became a petty, jealous git LOL.
Kevin was absolutely amazing in the role and I'm sure would have at least gone on to have a great role in genre films and shows. He'd have made a pretty good Master actually as he had the look and could have given us a Delgado type of Master, who was as charming as he was sadistic.
Sadly poor Kevin was killed in an accident not long after finishing Xena, so we'll never know if he'd have been the fourth of these guys who are stuck playing morally grey characters or if he'd maybe have broken free and become a conventional leading man.
