Who Loved Buffy More?

[Flannen]

As someone said earlier, the fact that Spike loved her without a soul, but knew he needed to get a soul inorder for her to love him back proved how deep his lover for her went. Hell, that meant the Demon inside him --- which was controlling him, and making his decisions --- was willing to destroy itself by letting the host get its soul back. That's pretty monumental.

True, but not everyone thinks that Spike loved her without a soul, despite all his claims to. So it's not as monumental for some. 🙂

 

[ubi4soft]

Yup, I do. But that was before the time of chipped-Spike, which I didn't make clear so that's my bad. When Spike thought she was just some pesky other Slayer, he was happy to use the Order or Taraka. But come season four/five and everything that had happened, he wouldn't have wanted, or let, anyone else kill her but him. Unless I'm overestimating Spike's character?

Personally, I don't think so. If he hadn't have been chipped he would have continued to go out of his way to kill her, like he did at the start of season four.

In S4, Spike wanted to kill her to prove himself that the slayer means nothing to him, after Drusilla dumped him the 2nd time (I see her floating all over you).

Even chipped and initially Spike blamed Buffy for his chip, if he really hated her he could hire someone for the job.

So, not counting Something Blue (love spell), not counting Fool for Love (Spike/Dru flash-backs in Brazil) we're left with "Sweet Slayer" - Superstar and that was genuine trouble waters.

Anyhow, this issue is dragged way much, I'll stop here. Spike loved her completely up to his death, always the fool for love.

EDIT: I'm a slow writer

True, but not everyone thinks that Spike loved her without a soul, despite all his claims to. So it's not as monumental for some.

Ask Drusilla.

 

[BillyidolwannaB]

I suppose Spike did love her before the chip. In Out of my Mind Spike thinks he gets the chip out and wants to kill Buffy. But when he realized the chips still in and will probably stay in, he goes home and has a dream about Buffy and wakes up saying 'oh god, no'. Those feelings must've been building up for a while.

 

[owa]

True, but not everyone thinks that Spike loved her without a soul, despite all his claims to. So it's not as monumental for some. 🙂

Not sure how you can figure that. Why else would he go and get a soul and then come back and say he went through all of that for her?

The Demon inside him would not have gotten a soul unless he loved her. Because as soon as he got a soul, he was himself again and was no longer the Demon. I can't see how it is to be assumed otherwise.

 

[Flannen]

The fact is that I could ask anyone, but it wouldn't make any difference; my interpretation is that Spike didn't love her before he had a soul and it always will be. If he did the events of Seeing Red would never have happened, neither would their relationship. If he truly loved her at that point (season 6) he would have realised how much pain it caused her and that it was not a good place for her to be in. But he was too selfish to see that.

lol, we could all debate this til the end of the time but rarely will someone start to see the show a different way than they've already interpreted it.

Also, I really wish I could say that they both loved her equally but in different way, but I can't. Way too biased for that 😉 so I admire those of you that can!

 

[owa]

The fact is that I could ask anyone, but it wouldn't make any difference; my interpretation is that Spike didn't love her before he had a soul and it always will be. If he did the events of Seeing Red would never have happened, neither would their relationship. If he truly loved her at that point (season 6) he would have realised how much pain it caused her and that it was not a good place for her to be in. But he was too selfish to see that.

lol, we could all debate this til the end of the time but rarely will someone start to see the show a different way than they've already interpreted it.

Also, I really wish I could say that they both loved her equally but in different way, but I can't. Way too biased for that 😉 so I admire those of you that can!

You didn't answer my question.

Plus lets not forget that he was controlled by a demon, so right and wrong is completely different. Also their relationship had been pre-dominately violent for the whole season, and that sexual encounter was almost exactly like all the previous ones: Buffy usually saying no and describing how much she doesn't want it, before giving into her lust. The only difference is that she meant it this time and Spike took it too far.

Even still, he loved her so much that he was willing to destroy the demon so that he could prove to her his love. Why else would he have gotten a soul?

EDIT:

"PrincessBuffy16 disagrees: Some people think he got that soul to prove himself something, not to her.."

I doubt it. Why would he say it was for her then? All he talks about when he leaves and when he's going through the trial is Buffy. There's nothing to suggest it was for any other reason. I'm all for personal opinion, but it still needs to be based on something real.

 

[faeriegrrl27]

I'd have to go with Spike. The whole Cangel think kind of ruined how I felt about his feelings for Buffy. I can't see Spike falling in love with anyone after Buffy. That Angel was able to seemed to degrade their relationship IMO.

 

[Flannen]

You didn't answer my question.

Plus lets not forget that he was controlled by a demon, so right and wrong is completely different. Also their relationship had been pre-dominately violent for the whole season, and that sexual encounter was almost exactly like all the previous ones: Buffy usually saying no and describing how much she doesn't want it, before giving into her lust. The only difference is that she meant it this time and Spike took it too far.

Even still, he loved her so much that he was willing to destroy the demon so that he could prove to her his love. Why else would he have gotten a soul?

That post wasn't in specific response to you, which is why it might not have answered your question exactly.

I'm not saying he didn't go and get the soul for her, but he didn't do out of love. He did so he could love her, not lust for her.

The argument about 'she usually said no' has been used all over the place and is just not a good enough reason for me. If he loved her, he never would have done it. That's where it stops for me. I think everyone's personal opinion is based on something real. What you interpret is real to you, someone else may decide it's not. That's just the way it goes.

Anyway, I think this thread has gone off-topic enough. So let's stick to the topic at hand. (including me 😉)There's plenty of threads out there where anything more specific that's been raised here can be discussed further. 🙂

 

[owa]

That post wasn't in specific response to you, which is why it might not have answered your question exactly.

I'm not saying he didn't go and get the soul for her, but he didn't do out of love. He did so he could love her, not lust for her.

The argument about 'she usually said no' has been used all over the place and is just not a good enough reason for me. If he loved her, he never would have done it. That's where it stops for me. I think everyone's personal opinion is based on something real. What you interpret is real to you, someone else may decide it's not. That's just the way it goes.

Anyway, I think this thread has gone off-topic enough. So let's stick to the topic at hand. (including me 😉)There's plenty of threads out there where anything more specific that's been raised here can be discussed further. 🙂

I guess my point is that if Spike was being controlled by a Demon, the Demon wouldn't willingly destroy himself unless it honest to god loved her enough to do that to itself.

But, yeah, we're going off topic, haha.

On topic, I'm not really sure who loved her more. They both loved her a lot, and picking one side over the other is just going to get messy. I couldn't really make a call one way or another.

I don't even prefer her with one over the other. By the end of the series, they both prove themselves to be honourable and dependable. They're also both caring.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I guess my point is that if Spike was being controlled by a Demon, the Demon wouldn't willingly destroy himself unless it honest to god loved her enough to do that to itself.

But, yeah, we're going off topic, haha.

On topic, I'm not really sure who loved her more. They both loved her a lot, and picking one side over the other is just going to get messy. I couldn't really make a call one way or another.

I don't even prefer her with one over the other. By the end of the series, they both prove themselves to be honourable and dependable. They're also both caring.

The competition between Spike and Angel never stops, does it? One always has to be better than the other - why is this? Why can't people deal with the fact that they both loved her equally? I hate how people will put down the other character in an attempt to argue for the other. Case in point: "Angel loved her more because (insert reason here) while Spike (insert something he failed to do here). So, therefore Angel loved/loves her more." Or the other way around.

It just grates on me. I have no issue with fans who don't believe Spike loves Buffy without a soul. I have no issue with fans who don't believe Buffy loved Spike romantically (although it's hard for me to "see" their viewpoint") That's probably true considering the evidence and the mythology. There are sound arguments for both sides.

Sorry for this tangent, owa. It doesn't really have anything to do with you.

In response to the original question: Who loved Buffy more?

They both loved her differently. Simple as that.

The argument that "Spike got a soul for her so therefore he loved her more" is more than flawed. Why? Because some people question his motives in getting that soul in the first place; was it to "get good" with her, or was it to "give her what she deserves"? A lover/man with a soul?

 

[Kean]

The competition between Spike and Angel never stops, does it? One always has to be better than the other - why is this? Why can't people deal with the fact that they both loved her equally? I hate how people will put down the other character in an attempt to argue for the other. Case in point: "Angel loved her more because (insert reason here) while Spike (insert something he failed to do here). So, therefore Angel loved/loves her more." Or the other way around.

It just grates on me. I have no issue with fans who don't believe Spike loves Buffy without a soul. I have no issue with fans who don't believe Buffy loved Spike romantically (although it's hard for me to "see" their viewpoint") That's probably true considering the evidence and the mythology. There are sound arguments for both sides.

Sorry for this tangent, owa. It doesn't really have anything to do with you.

In response to the original question: Who loved Buffy more?

They both loved her differently. Simple as that.

The argument that "Spike got a soul for her so therefore he loved her more" is more than flawed. Why? Because some people question his motives in getting that soul in the first place; was it to "get good" with her, or was it to "give her what she deserves"? A lover/man with a soul?

I here ya sister!

I know I participated in this thread but I have to agree with ya Joan 🙂

Us fighting over who loved her more is kinda ridiculous because a) how do you quantify love? and b) even if we could prove who loved her more it has absolutely no baring on who she loves more, or how she loves them.

We're pretty much tying ourselves in knots.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I here ya sister!

I know I participated in this thread but I have to agree with ya Joan 🙂

Us fighting over who loved her more is kinda ridiculous because a) how do you quantify love? and b) even if we could prove who loved her more it has absolutely no baring on who she loves more, or how she loves them.

We're pretty much tying ourselves in knots.

Well, agreed. A lot of what we "fight" about is equally ridiculous...but it's fun, isn't it? I'm just feeling particularly emotional today. Eek.

True. Regardless of if Buffy loved Spike or whatever, that has nothing to do with how much he loved her.

 

[owa]

The competition between Spike and Angel never stops, does it? One always has to be better than the other - why is this? Why can't people deal with the fact that they both loved her equally? I hate how people will put down the other character in an attempt to argue for the other. Case in point: "Angel loved her more because (insert reason here) while Spike (insert something he failed to do here). So, therefore Angel loved/loves her more." Or the other way around.

It just grates on me. I have no issue with fans who don't believe Spike loves Buffy without a soul. I have no issue with fans who don't believe Buffy loved Spike romantically (although it's hard for me to "see" their viewpoint") That's probably true considering the evidence and the mythology. There are sound arguments for both sides.

Sorry for this tangent, owa. It doesn't really have anything to do with you.

No, that's alright, you baisically just said exactly what I said except in a longer and more thought out way