Who Made The Better Team?

[BibliophileAnn]

To be honest, were any of them that good at fighting together? Buffy never wanted Riley around, he was strong but not nearly as strong as Buffy, Spike or Angel. Buffy was annoyed at Spike's interference in S5, in S7 he was pussying out of fights, and in S6 he spent most of his time following Buffy around and moping that she wasn't/was/wasn't sleeping with him. And I can't actually recall Buffy and Angel fighting together - maybe someone will correct me but IIRC they spent a lot more time moping in each other's company in graveyards than they did actually fighting in them.

Spoiler

Buffy and Faith turned slaying into a new Olympic event.

True Buffy and Angel didn't fight in very many epsisodes but choices is the best example. They not only fight in a graveyard but go on a mission to steal the box of gavrok in the mayor's office. Both Buffy and Angel turn over a table together on some vamps and when they run outside they both jump in the bushes together. Their heads pop up at the exact same time. A scene in Lie to me when the hospital is receiving a blood delivery. Angel shows up and when there are more than one vamp. And of course in season 1 when the three come after Buffy in the episode Angel and can't forget Surprise when Buffy and Angel are at the docks with one of the judges arms in a box. Vamps show up of course and interupt their romantic interlude.

 

[Wishing Oceans]

True Buffy and Angel didn't fight in very many epsisodes but choices is the best example. They not only fight in a graveyard but go on a mission to steal the box of gavrok in the mayor's office. Both Buffy and Angel turn over a table together on some vamps and when they run outside they both jump in the bushes together. Their heads pop up at the exact same time. A scene in Lie to me when the hospital is receiving a blood delivery. Angel shows up and when there are more than one vamp. And of course in season 1 when the three come after Buffy in the episode Angel and can't forget Surprise when Buffy and Angel are at the docks with one of the judges arms in a box. Vamps show up of course and interupt their romantic interlude.

Buffy and Angel don't make a good fighting team because they can't refrain from making out, and therefore get overly distracted. 😉


Lol. Yeah. But, of course, I chose Spike. Why? Well, Tabula Rasa jumped to mind at first. They didn't even KNOW each other, but they still worked together perfectly like two peas in a pod- Watching each others back, knowing what moves to do, moving in harmony, etc. In the S7 episode "The Killer in Me", they were fighting together, and they were standing back to back, circling around, watching out for the other. Even JW commented on how much he liked the scene, how in tune they were. Another ep that comes to mind is Lovers Walk. The two of them were enemies, yet when it came to fighting they kicked butt together.

To be honest, I haven't seen Angel and Buffy fighting together that often... Maybe my subconscious blocks those scenes. 😉 I dunno. I'm sure that Buffy and Angel make a great team, those two really complete each other. Yin and Yang. Opposites work well in battle, and they're similar enough to be able to predict what the other would do. But I'm gonna go with Spuffy. 🙂

 

[Tome]

lol, don't think I'm bashing you here, I'm just interested.

What sort of situations do you think Angel would hesitate in? I think if anyone was going make Angel question the cause it would be Buffy. Of course he would die for her, just as Spike would. But where Spike falls down for me, is that he would happily let the world get sucked to hell in order to hold Buffy's body and cry. Whereas Angel, would, as has been said, do what Buffy had set out to do and save the world.

So in terms of most effective fighting team, and the man that 'gets' Buffy and would follow her wishes, it's Angel.

Like, I said, I'm not bashing you, I just feel like you're doing Angel (that's not Angel, not Bangel, lol) a bit of a disservice.

Well, what I was saying is that no matter what Buffy choose or did Spike would have supported her and fought with her, even if she was on the wrong side and all. I'm sure you get what I mean. So I think with that in mind, they were the best team. As for Angel hesitating, well, i'm not saying this in a bad way for him. He just wouldn't throw everything away just for Buffy. And he has shown that on the shows. If Buffy made wrong choices for the world, he wouldn't readily fight with her. All i'm trying to say is, Spike always had a bit more passion(and it blinds him sometimes) than Angel(case in point, see in 'Destiny' who gets the Cup)in what he loved and wanted. I think in the end Angel would pick the *right* choice, and Spike wouldn't because of how he is and that for him Buffy is the most important thing.

Did I make it a bit clearer? :/

 

[Wishing Oceans]

Well, what I was saying is that no matter what Buffy choose or did Spike would have supported her and fought with her, even if she was on the wrong side and all. I'm sure you get what I mean. So I think with that in mind, they were the best team. As for Angel hesitating, well, i'm not saying this in a bad way for him. He just wouldn't throw everything away just for Buffy. And he has shown that on the shows. If Buffy made wrong choices for the world, he wouldn't readily fight with her. All i'm trying to say is, Spike always had a bit more passion(and it blinds him sometimes) than Angel(case in point, see in 'Destiny' who gets the Cup)in what he loved and wanted. I think in the end Angel would pick the *right* choice, and Spike wouldn't because of how he is and that for him Buffy is the most important thing.

Did I make it a bit clearer? :/

Hm, I'm not sure if I agree with your argument. The way that you're putting makes it sound like you think that Spike would be the better partner for Buffy because he follows her blindly. I don't think that acting illogically is a positive thing in a partnership. Buffy needs somebody who can watch her back and tell her if she's being unreasonable, not a partner that just goes along with everything that she says. What you're describing is a henchman, not a partner. 😀

Although, personally, I DON'T think that Spike would just drop everything at Buffy's beck and call. Maybe he would've in S5 and early S6, but somewhere along the way I would've hoped that he could have gained enough self-respect to think for himself for a change. For example, Chosen. When Buffy begged him to come back with her (they were best friends, after all.), did he just stop what he was doing and come with her? No. He knew what he needed to do for the world, even if Buffy wasn't ready to admit that it was necessary. And that's some real progression, both for Spike and Spuffy. Makes me proud. 🙂

Also. What makes Spuffy a great team? The fact that they're best friends and evenly matched. Simple as that. 🙂

 

[Tome]

Hm, I'm not sure if I agree with your argument. The way that you're putting makes it sound like you think that Spike would be the better partner for Buffy because he follows her blindly. I don't think that acting illogically is a positive thing in a partnership. Buffy needs somebody who can watch her back and tell her if she's being unreasonable, not a partner that just goes along with everything that she says. What you're describing is a henchman, not a partner. 😀

The question was, who make the better team. For me it's talking about fightning as a team, not the best guy for the long term relationship. And yes Spike did indeed act like that, and no i'm not saying it's positive to be following your partner blindly, trust me, I know!

Although, personally, I DON'T think that Spike would just drop everything at Buffy's beck and call. Maybe he would've in S5 and early S6, but somewhere along the way I would've hoped that he could have gained enough self-respect to think for himself for a change. For example, Chosen. When Buffy begged him to come back with her (they were best friends, after all.), did he just stop what he was doing and come with her? No. He knew what he needed to do for the world, even if Buffy wasn't ready to admit that it was necessary. And that's some real progression, both for Spike and Spuffy. Makes me proud.

Well he didn't come because it was his turn to do something good, but i'm pretty sure he did it mostly for her. He couldn't go with her... it wasn't a case of what I was talking about. If you want a concrete example from the show, when Buffy argue with everyone else(INCLUDING her best friends) about what to do next and they finally kick her out of her house. If Spike had been there, he would have freaking defended her to hell(as seen by his confrontation with Faith and others later on), even if she was pushing it on a lot of things. Spike was like that with Drusilla too and from what we saw from him through his life, it was part of his personality. Again, i'm not saying it's a good thing, I was just trying to explain why I picked Spike. Spike would make the best team with Buffy, because no matter what he'd stand with her, good or bad. Angel wouldn't have gone that far. And that's GOOD from Angel(in my opinion).

It's alright if you disagree with me, I didn't have that many occasions from the show to 100% prove my theory, but i'm pretty confident in it 😀

 

[Wishing Oceans]

The question was, who make the better team. For me it's talking about fightning as a team, not the best guy for the long term relationship. And yes Spike did indeed act like that, and no i'm not saying it's positive to be following your partner blindly, trust me, I know!

Yeah, I know. 😀 And I get what you're saying, it's a good point. 🙂 But I still think that a team should be reasonable in their actions. 😀

Well he didn't come because it was his turn to do something good, but i'm pretty sure he did it mostly for her. He couldn't go with her... it wasn't a case of what I was talking about. If you want a concrete example from the show, when Buffy argue with everyone else(INCLUDING her best friends) about what to do next and they finally kick her out of her house. If Spike had been there, he would have freaking defended her to hell(as seen by his confrontation with Faith and others later on), even if she was pushing it on a lot of things. Spike was like that with Drusilla too and from what we saw from him through his life, it was part of his personality. Again, i'm not saying it's a good thing, I was just trying to explain why I picked Spike. Spike would make the best team with Buffy, because no matter what he'd stand with her, good or bad. Angel wouldn't have gone that far. And that's GOOD from Angel(in my opinion).

As for the bolded part, that's very true. 🙂 In fact, it's canon. To quote Spike from Harm's Way, "It's just, I gave up my life for her, the world, and if I show up now, flesh and bone, my grand finale won't hold much weight. All of it... won't matter."

And I agree, it's important for a partner (such as Spike) to support the other and help them, but there's a thin line between supporting somebody and acting rashly out of extreme devotion.

To be honest, MY favorite Buffy team is the team of the Core Four. :biggrin3: Friendship makes the ideal team. 🙂

It's alright if you disagree with me, I didn't have that many occasions from the show to 100% prove my theory, but i'm pretty confident in it 😀

Of course, we can just agree to disagree. 😀 (And yeah, I probably don't have TOO many examples, either... My specialty is S6 Spuffy. Not... Whatever this topic is. (sw) )

 

[BibliophileAnn]

Buffy and Angel don't make a good fighting team because they can't refrain from making out, and therefore get overly distracted. 😉


Lol. Yeah. But, of course, I chose Spike. Why? Well, Tabula Rasa jumped to mind at first. They didn't even KNOW each other, but they still worked together perfectly like two peas in a pod- Watching each others back, knowing what moves to do, moving in harmony, etc. In the S7 episode "The Killer in Me", they were fighting together, and they were standing back to back, circling around, watching out for the other. Even JW commented on how much he liked the scene, how in tune they were. Another ep that comes to mind is Lovers Walk. The two of them were enemies, yet when it came to fighting they kicked butt together.

To be honest, I haven't seen Angel and Buffy fighting together that often... Maybe my subconscious blocks those scenes. 😉 I dunno. I'm sure that Buffy and Angel make a great team, those two really complete each other. Yin and Yang. Opposites work well in battle, and they're similar enough to be able to predict what the other would do. But I'm gonna go with Spuffy. 🙂

lol That happened in Bad Eggs when they were patrolling together but not in any fight I have seen or read. Maybe those scenes are just not memorable for you. 🙂 :smile3: Buffy and Angel while they are fighting don't lose sight of the other if Buffy gets in trouble Angel is there if Angel gets in trouble Buffy is there. And that is what makes the way Buffy and Angel fight really a thrill to watch. They know what the other is thinking and they communicate with just one look. Like in Lover's Walk when both Buffy and Angel think to use the holy water at the same time. In surprise they were saying good-bye or so we thought and the vamps hadn't crashed yet. I'll go with Bangel of course. :biggrin3:

 

[Willow-Tree]

I voted for Spike, but I'll give my thoughts on each person.

Angel - I think working with Buffy would be too much of a challenge because of all the leftover baggage they both are carrying. It'd be too hard to focus on fighting when you're too focused on the past.

Riley - Too boring, not interested.

Spike - Perfect! 😀

 

[Marisa]

I choose Spike I think him and Buffy are a great team and he is a little stronger at fighting than Angel.

 

[Aloverssoulz]

Angel and Buffy make the best fighting team I think.

Not only is Angel the strongest partner Buffy has ever had (leaving out an angry Willow), but they read eachother well and watch eachothers backs. In seasons 1-3 there's some great fight scenes of them working together.

Riley was to slow and weak to keep up with the Slayer.

Faith and Buffy worked amazing together for the most part, but she lead Buffy into danger which nearly got themselves killed and by time Faith got out of jail and went to Sunnydale I feel Buffy had become to strong for Faith due to her training in season 5 with Giles plus her endless fighting nearly every night while Faith was rotting away in a cell.

Spike is a good fighter, but not as strong as Angel and he's also reckless. He just got in Buffy's way in season 5, didn't do much in season 6 and was useless for most of season 7.

 

[TeamSunnydale]

I voted for Spike. Tactically, I think that Buffy would be better with Angel, but in the heat of a battle, Spike would save Buffy if she needed saving whereas Angel would just carry on fighting. Also, i think that spike and buffy have better chemistry than buffy and angel. i think in season 7 spike and buffy became best friends and fell in love whereas buffy and angel just had a high school romance, and he was her first love. i think that chemistry would be important in working together, it would make you more aware of the other person. 🙂

 

[Tome]

Aaaaaaaaaaah! This thread is back from the dead. 😱 Spike/Buffy > Angel/Buffy. 😉

 

[white avenger]

Looking back over this thread now, I see that I actually was remiss in not including Faith for consideration here. Since it's too late to change that now, I suggest that we be fair and award half of the votes cast for Angel to Faith, since they are going to be a team in Season 9.

 

[Taaroko]

I would have voted for Angel if the poll were still open. When Buffy and Angel fight together, it's like they're reading each other's minds. And that wasn't even something they had to practice. They already had it down in "The Dark Age". As soon as she recognized the newcomer in that fight outside the hospital to be Angel, she wordlessly handed off half of the enemy vamps to him. They instinctively know each other's strengths and weaknesses in a fight, how to play off each other, and how to divide up the enemies between them.

Riley has a tendency to underestimate her abilities and Spike has a tendency to attack the enemy she was trying to fight, rather than dividing and conquering. And if we're including Faith now, her tendency to jump into the fight when Buffy would have preferred to plan a little more is the main reason she isn't Buffy's best battle buddy.

 

[Miss Kitty]

When it came to fight, I think that both Spike and Angel are performing in team with Buffy, but at different levels.

But my answer will be Spike for a very simple reason (and I swear, I try to put aside my shipper bias 😛 ). We have seen that their team works when it came to fight together, side by side, like in The Killer in me, when they instinctively put themselves back to back. We know that they wouldn't hesitate to trust each other with their life, and even if we don't have see them in an effective battle a lot of times, the fact is : he's there for her, in the middle of action, constantly. It can be on little details, but look at Wrecked, when they rescue Dawn from the demon who's attacking her. They really act as a team. They both heard Dawn screaming, they exchange one look and here we go, they're here for rescuing her. Buffy is fighting the demon while Spike is looking after her sister. To me, working as a team is knowing how to be additional. In Dirty Girls, it's Spike who saved Xander from Caleb, and Buffy comes to them just after that for helping. When one of them isn't there, the other one takes the role. We also have the example of The Gift, when Buffy is fighting Glory, she asked to Spike to going searching Dawn at the top of the tower.

Maybe I have a wrong perception of the situation, but I always felt that Angel was both near and away from her. He was mostly alone, while Buffy was fighting by herself (or with Faith in season 3).

And we see Spike and Buffy fighting side by side a few times, in Listening to fear, Flooded, All the way, Tabula Rasa (they instinctively form a team), Dead things, Older and far away, Help (he helped with Cassie), First date, Storyteller (and "Spike" is the first thing she calls for when a guy caught her), Dirty Girls, Chosen... And even when he doesn't fight, he's there, like in Spiral, where he saved her life, or in OMWF where he did it again... At the beggining of Dirty Girls (just before Faith's arrival), we know they're patrolling together , and it doesn't seem to be the first time. And during season 7, they're coaching the potential slayers together. They're not only a team when it came to fight, but at many different levels, and that's an important part in the reason why their team works.

But honestly, that's not exactly why Spike has my vote. I think their team is more effective simply because of their emotionnal connection. I mean, if Buffy hadn't believed in him, like she said to him in Never leave me, he probably wouldn't have keep faith in himself. But she supported him, protected/defended him and trusted him, and at the end of the day ? He saved the world. And vice-versa. Buffy was completely broken in Touched and had lost her faith in herself, but it's Spike who give her strenght to fight and to find herself again, by connecting her not only to him, but also to herself. And finally ? She kicks Caleb's ass, and found the Scythe who permitted to give power to the potential slayers. That kind of connection is what makes them stronger in my opinion, because they're additional and they're able to give strenght to each other, because of their emotional connection, and that's precisely this kind of strenght who permitted to save the world. By this point, we see a team where the relationship between the characters is positive for them, but at the end of the day, also positive for the world.

So yeah, undoubtedly, Buffy & Spike were the best team in my opinion.

 

[prophecygrrl]

Spike and Buffy. To be honest I don't remember too much of her fighting with Angel. I think her relationship with Angel is defined in other ways. And when it comes to slaying, I thought of Angel as more the 'info guy' than the fighter. That's just how I saw his role. But Buffy and Spike? Totally different. The way they treat sparring and fighting is a huge part of their dynamic, and it shows. Whether they're fighting each other or side by side, fighting is a big part of how they express themselves- I hate you, I want you, I love you, I need you with me. The range of emotion is huge, but the medium is still the same. Spike is also a really good street fighter and his ability to read people (that's how he killed those two Slayers, after all) comes in handy when it comes to both trying to hurt Buffy (earlier seasons) and then later trying to help her.