Who was in the Wrong? (Briley)

The Ferg

Scooby
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Was it Buffy or Riley? I think Buffy was. I realize that her mom was sick, but still, it's like she completely ignored him sometimes. Xander had the perfect word for Riley, but I can't remember it... :/ (It was in Into the Woods)
 
W
wehappyfew
a convenience?
I would have to agree. Buffy was a bitca to Riley a lot of the time. She was emotionally unavailable and kind of treated him like her lap dog. I was trying to think of what Xander refers to him as and all I can think is lap dog. But I am pretty sure it was Spike that called him that.
 
Xander calls him the rebound guy...which is really what he was. I think they were both in the wrong. Riley was intimidated by Buffy, especially her Slayer side. He resenr=ted her strenght and power no matter how much he didn't want to. And Buffy just wasn't there for him, not really. She still hadn't gotten past Angel in my opinion and kept Riley at arms lenght to stop him from getting in.
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hannahfngrl26 agrees: agreed, rebound guy, I had totally forgotten about that. Do you think Buffy will every get over Angel? 😉

Honestly? No, because they have never had any closure, ever. No matter how or who they move on with there is still that secret hope in their hearts' of someday, as Chosen so wonderfully proved. T
 
H
hannahfngrl26
agreed, rebound guy, I had totally forgotten about that. Do you think Buffy will every get over Angel? ;)
palabravampiress
palabravampiress
Nice post. Both were in the wrong.
Karol
Karol
Both wrong ^^
Airam
Airam
I agree, well with everything but the edit :p
Wishing Oceans
Wishing Oceans
Also agreed with all but the edit. ;D
I don't think resented is the right word. He was jealous, sure, but resentment sounds a little too strong.

But you can't blame the guy. and then on top of it she just kind of pushes him away, when all he wants to do is be there for her. It got to the point where he didn't feel she needed him or even sometimes wanted him around. Why continue a relationship that feels so one sided?
 
From my S5 rewatch:


Buffy vs. Dracula

Riley's confusion about Buffy's obsession with vampires and easily falling under their thrall is the first step in this season to his storyline of insecurity and inferiority.

Real Me

Buffy and Riley were totally cute in this episode. Everything is fine and dandy here.

The Replacement

BUFFY: Riley, do you wish-
RILEY: No.
BUFFY: No? You don't even know what I was gonna say.
RILEY: Yes, I do. You wanted to know if I wished you got hit by the ferula-gemina, got split in two.
BUFFY: Well, you have been kind of rankly about the whole slayer gig. Instead of having slayer Buffy, you could have Buffy Buffy.
RILEY: Hey. I *have* Buffy Buffy. Being the slayer's part of who you are. You keep thinking I don't get that, but...
BUFFY: It's just ... I know how ... un-fun it can be. The bad hours, frequent bruising, cranky monsters...
RILEY: Buffy... if you led a perfectly normal life, you wouldn't be half as crazy as you are. I gotta have that. I gotta have it all. I'm talkin' toes, elbows, the whole bad-ice-skating-movie obsession, everything. There's no part of you I'm not in love with.

🙂

RILEY: (grinning) Hey, I'm well aware of how lucky I am. Like, lottery lucky. Buffy's like nobody else in the world. When I'm with her it's like ... it's like I'm split in two. Half of me is just ... on fire, going crazy if I'm not touching her. The other half ... is so still and peaceful ... just perfectly content. Just knows: this is the one. (Smiles a little, continues packing for a moment, then looks up at Xander again.) But she doesn't love me.

🙁

Out of My Mind

Buffy doesn't want Riley or Spike patrolling with her. Why? Is she more comfortable doing it alone? Both of them are strong and willing to help, way more than Xander and Willow back in high school, so what's the problem? Her "alone" patrols started from S5, from the season Buffy made an interest in learning more about her slayer essence.

Riley's weird behavior in the training room is the result of the comment Spike made the earlier night about Buffy not needing Riley and Buffy's less enthusiastic features when she saw him at patrol. Both had gotten into him.

The Buffy/Riley sex scene"¦ Riley really wants to show her that he could keep up with her.

The Buffy/Riley conversation shows me that he really wants to be strong for her. Not for him. He's doing this to be equal with her because he thinks that's what she wants. And I believe that Buffy really doesn't care about that. Her interests in love and choices in men are not that predictable. I love this conversation. Buffy and Riley opened up to each other and, look, they're still together and they're doing the right thing. Which brings me to the reason of their break up: lack of communication. I can't wait for the next episodes to see how it's gonna go wrong, because now, they're tight again.

Graham's speech to Riley about being nothing right now. He's the mission's boyfriend, but not the mission. He has no purpose but being Buffy's boyfriend. Love isn't enough and I can't really blame Riley for that. I mean, who wants to be defined solely as someone's lover? You have to have an identity for yourself, not just as a support to some other person. And I think in Buffy's case, she never tried to encourage that in Riley. Buffy, in fact, actually takes away the one thing Riley's good at, by not letting him patrol and take part in the slayage. It seems pretty obvious to me now that he would eventually go back to the military - like Graham says, who wants to be the mission's boyfriend?

No Place Like Home

"You can't patrol, Buffy said. She also said you look cuter when you're all weak and kitteny and she'd better go solo or you'll get hurt." Okay, that's not something a man or a woman wants to hear, it's like Dawn saying as clear as the sun at noon: You're useless.

Buffy's attempt later to make Riley feel useful is adorable, though. But then Riley says this: "Instead of you taking care of me, why don't we take care of each other?"

This is what I got so far because this is the last ep I rewatched. But I don't believe what some said about Riley needing to be the man who takes care of his woman. So far he did not come off like that, as I presented, he came off as a guy who wanted an equal relationship, not a guy who wanted to be stronger than his girlfriend.

Family

- Buffy telling Giles about Dawn felt to me more like a Slayer/Watcher deal. It wasn't about not trusting her mom or her friends or Riley, it was that the fewer in the know the better. Giles is the watcher and he's the only one qualified to know. Now if we're talking romantic relationships, that's Willow's territory because she's Buffy's best friend.

- Riley senses that Buffy is hiding something from him. He was quite sensitive to her extreme reaction when he mentioned the government. Perhaps he thought that she didn't trust who he was, who he still really is? I don't really fault Buffy for her actions in this scene. She didn't want the government involved because they'd be also a danger to Dawn, since Dawn isn't really human"¦ by some sort of standards that is. Riley, though, doesn't know that, so I understand his reaction. Maybe Buffy should have told him about Dawn?

- Why isn't Riley invited to research in the Magic Box? Buffy should have invited him, especially knowing how he feels about her hiding stuff from him. Maybe she couldn't find him?

- How many bars does Sunnydale have? Riley goes to Willy's night after night, I assume since Out of My Mind, just for the atmosphere. I'm wondering what the real reason is though. Was Riley drowning in self-loathing? He hates the guy he become, a guy with no purpose. He wants to have an identity of his own, and now he's just Buffy's boyfriend. It makes understand why Spike stayed in LA in S5, he wants to make something of himself and not just be Buffy's follower.

- Riley came to Tara's birthday with a gift. Did he let Sandy bite him at this point? They didn't show us that.

Shadow:

- Xander is really pissed about Riley destroying the vamp nest solo. He knows why Riley is doing this while Willow doesn't catch on it. Riley wants to prove that he's capable of getting the job done without help (kinda like Buffy does) and he's doing that to impress Buffy and his wounded ego.

- Can anyone really blame Riley for being pissed when he found Spike sniffing his girlfriend's clothes? I actually felt bad for Riley in his whole scene with Spike. Hearing that Buffy spent last night buying Spike drinks as well as her not asking Willow to do a deinvite on the house, plus bringing up Angel (who used to be Buffy's everything) isn't a good thing for Riley's bruised self-esteem ever since he gave up his chip of power. To be honest, I don't blame Riley at all for going aggressive on Spike. Spike was asking for it.

- The big punch came: Spike knew about Buffy's mother being in the hospital and Riley didn't. I think it's more Spike's taunting imply that made Riley insecure than the information itself. "You know, it's-it's funny her not calling you about that. I've known since last night."

- Loved Riley's scene with Buffy in the hospital afterwards. He was very understanding and supportive. That's what Buffy needs.

- This episode is just throwing punches at poor Riley, doesn't it? Dawn meant well when she told him that Buffy cries less with Riley than she did with Angel. Riley's skeptical tone about Buffy being glad he's here shows the beginning of his inferiority complex regarding the relationship.

- I got the impression that Dawn wasn't an Angel fan. Buffy appears happier and high spirited while dating Riley, which is much better than her broken and gloomy self while dating Angel. So I can see why Dawn likes Riley better.

- Xander tells Riley off, chiding him for acting solo and trying to prove he's still the same old hero. The scene between Riley and Xander shows Xander's potential of being "the guy who sees", very nice foreshadow.

- Sadly, Xander's lecture to Riley didn't help matters. Riley is back to the bar drinking his sorrows. After all the stings he got as well as Xander catching what he's doing, nothing like alcohol to make it easier. Enters Sandy and Riley lets her bite him, it's sad to see this while Buffy is with her mother at the hospital. I can't really blame Buffy for what's happening with Riley, she showed how much she was grateful for him showing up when he did. It's not her fault her mind was so caught up on her mother's illness and her sister's dangerous situation. Riley's rising insecurity came from discussions with people other than Buffy.

- The last scene: This is the first time since the beginning of S5 that I didn't sympathize with Riley. It seemed he was more concerned about healing his fragile ego than Buffy's serious problems with her mother's condition.

Listening to Fear:

- Riley ditched the gang and Xander is pissed. He had been noticing Riley's weird behavior for awhile now and his lecture in the earlier episode didn't help matters. Perhaps if Xander talked to Buffy about it at this point, things would have turned out differently between Buffy and Riley. I guess he didn't want to bother her with Riley's insecurities while she was busy taking care of her mother. Giles and Willow are oblivious to Riley's change in behavior.

- It's really nice to see Xander upset with Riley and holds him some of the blame for being an idiot. Some fans makes it seem as Xander is too pro-Riley, which he isn't. Yeah, he considers him a friend and thinks he's the best guy for Buffy, but when Xander's friends screw up, he calls them on it.

- Riley doesn't join the others for research. Seems he made his decision where his priorities lie. He's done with the Scoobies and he wants back into the government. It's very obvious seeing how he almost said "Agent Finn" and swiftly replaced it with "Riley Finn." After all, who wants to be the sidekick over being the hero? Who wants a boring research session over an adventure? Not someone who was the lead of a group of soldiers. Again, only Xander calls Riley on it because he's the only one who noticed how detached Riley had gotten. "Yeah, don't do anything hunterly."

- GRAHAM: You found a stiff in the woods and called us in? Don't you usually call your girlfriend for this kind of thing?

Does that mean this is the first time Riley contacts with the government when things go dicey?

- RILEY: It's okay. Joyce was released earlier today. That intern, um, Ben, told me. They're safe at home.

Good to know that Riley still asks about Joyce and Buffy. In the middle of all the craziness, he doesn't forget them.

- Okay, Riley looking at Buffy and Spike holding hands? Not so good. I wonder why he never suspected they have a thing. With Spike saying that Buffy bought him dinner and Buffy's weak spot for vampires (Angel and Dracula), and now the hand holding, I'd have suspected something, especially if I had an inferiority when it comes to Buffy.

Into the Woods:

- I loved the Buffy-Riley exchange in the hospital. They appeared like a real couple. For the past two episodes, they were physically and emotionally apart.

- Good thing that Buffy decided to give Riley a special night. I'm actually happy it came from her. Not as an advice from someone else. It makes me kinda hate Riley a little. Because Buffy's distance was more because her mother was sick, which is understandable.

- I think Riley is upset that Buffy didn't let him be there for her. With her mother's illness, Buffy had suffered alone, which she shouldn't. She had a devoted boyfriend and he would have made sure to make it easier if she had let him in. What Riley doesn't know is that Buffy had hardened, preferring to be weak alone and pretend to be strong in front of everybody, even those close to her.

- Uh Oh, Riley is leaving. He needs his vamp-bite-drugs. He doesn't know he's caught. I really hate that Riley decided to go and get bitten after the special night Buffy prepared for them. That's just so low, Riley.

- Buffy had been neglecting a lot of things. School, which is bad. Her friends, which is okay because they're very understanding and supportive. Slaying, which also bad, seeing her friends' lousy fighting skills. Riley, which she'll sadly lose in this episode. Her mom wants her to pay more attention to her life, but Buffy wants to make sure her mom is alright. To be honest, I don't think Buffy is doing anything wrong, there's no problem with making your very sick mother your first priority but you must keep in mind that life goes on and is not gonna hold on until you're done with your current dilemma.

- I can see why Riley is so torn. He doesn't really like his life as a no-body. He likes the man he used to be and it's a good thing that this new army isn't the Initiative. They don't care about studying demons and doing experiments on them, they only stop them from killing people. They're the army version of the Scoobies, only they'd allow Riley to feel like a better man. A useful one.

- Why doesn't Riley stake Spike? What is it that he wants from him? He knows Spike has a thing for Buffy and it seems that it's driving him crazy. Staking Spike would have saved him lots of headache and obviously no one would be angry with him. I did like their conversation though. It's like they understand each other.

- Ouch! The Buffy/Riley talk was awful. I understand both sides. Riley wants to feel equal, he wants to take care of Buffy like Buffy takes care of him. Buffy, on the other hand, reminds him that part of her personality is being on top of everything. She's the slayer, she does the "taking care of" part and it's hard on her to be weak and let someone else takes care of her. I wish Riley had his talk with Buffy early this morning and not wait until night to tell her. At least, she would have had more hours to think about it.

- Buffy running after Riley felt more like she was moved by Xander's speech. I really wonder how things would have changed for both of them if Riley glanced outside the helicopter.
 
caitaintdead
caitaintdead
Nicely done!
ItMustBeBunnies
ItMustBeBunnies
very good:)
The Ferg
The Ferg
Wow, you're really dedicated. Good job :)
Wishing Oceans
Wishing Oceans
Nicely said!
T
Tammarie
perfect! that's just..it. agree completely
Buffy was wrong.. And she knew it. That's why she was so bummed... End of story
 
I don't think either was "right" or "wrong."

Buffy was too "I must deal with this on my own, I must carry the world on my shoulders, I must not appear weak" just as Riley was being too "I want to be big and strong and my girlfriend's bigger and stronger than me, wahhh!"

Still, my hatred of Riley makes me want to say it was a bit more his fault than Buffy's. What really seemed to bother him about Buffy's behavior was that she wasn't being as vulnerable around him as he felt most of the time. She didn't come crying to him about her mom. And, so what? She didn't go crying to anyone else (unless you count Spike, but I don't, because he sort of stumbled upon her crying). She's not the type of person to show her vulnerability. Riley's inferiority issues only fueled this, I think...the more inferior he felt, the more superior Buffy felt she needed to act. You can't have two insecure weaklings around.

However, I can push my hatred of Riley aside for a moment in order to see where he's coming from. I can understand how frustrating it would have been, being shut out like that. Still, was an ultimatum the way to fix this? I think not. Can't say I'm unhappy about that bit, I'm delighted he left, but still.
 
T
TheChosenTwo
[No message]
I don't think it was either's fault. It was just a relationship in it's natural death throws. Buffy was pre-occupied with other things to notice and Riley, who did see what was going on went about trying to fix it in totally the wrong way. There was fault on both sides but isn't that usually the case when a relationship breaks down? Not every relationship has to last forever.
 
Buffy was too "I must deal with this on my own, I must carry the world on my shoulders, I must not appear weak" just as Riley was being too "I want to be big and strong and my girlfriend's bigger and stronger than me, wahhh!"

I think that sums it up pretty well.

Have easier to understand Buffy though. She is used to solve her problems alone.

Never really got the whole - oh no my girlfriend doesn't need me enough - that Riley obsessed about.

/SK
 
Buffy was wrong.. And she knew it. That's why she was so bummed... End of story

Couldn't have summed it up better...

I was really bummed when Briley ended. I LOVED Marc Blucas' character. I thought Riley was good to have around so Xander wouldn't be the only young guy hanging out with all these girls all the time, and I thought Buffy and Riley's relationship could have been beautiful had Buffy put more effort into making it work. I know she had a lot going on throughout their relationship, but like other people here have pointed out, she kind of took advantage of him and treated him a lot of the time like he didn't matter, and that always hurt my feelings for him. Riley loved her so deeply but Buffy treated him like he was just some guy, and that was why it didn't work out.
 
^ Was she supposed to force herself to love him? To make the relationship something it just didn't want to be?

Sure, she could have tried harder...but something was *missing* in the relationship. Something primal and basic and underlying. I believe Buffy only realized it after "Primeval" and harnessing the power of the first Slayer. There is a darkness to being the Slayer that Riley either didn't understand or didn't want to accept. We see it in "Buffy vs. Dracula"...Buffy's lying in bed with Riley, wide awake. She glances over at him, gets out of bed, goes on patrol, kills a vampire, makes a very satisfied "ahhh" noise as she does it (we know what that means), and goes back to bed, satisfied and ready to sleep. Something was missing, something she just couldn't get from Riley.

It's easy to say Buffy was in the wrong and she ruined what would have been a beautiful, normal, stable relationship, but I just don't buy that. Riley wasn't the perfect boyfriend and the relationship wasn't the perfect one for Buffy..obviously, or she would have behaved differently. I'm glad it ended rather than Buffy wedging herself and Riley into places they just didn't belong.
 
Riley was being too "I want to be big and strong and my girlfriend's bigger and stronger than me, wahhh!".

I think he wanted them to be equals. It's understandable. He had been the big guy back in S4 and now he's a no-body. I also think the fact that Riley now has no purpose but be Buffy's boyfriend, doomed to a life of research instead of going out there and fight (which is something he loves) is also another reason why he chose the goverment over Buffy.

However, I believe if Buffy came in time andf promised to work things with him, he'd have stayed.

I don't think solving their issues is as hard as fans make it out to be. I don't believe in the nonesense that Buffy could only be happy with a vampire. Buffy will be happy with someone who understands her regardless of who he is.
 
A Little Monster

^ Sure, she could have tried harder...but something was *missing* in the relationship. Something primal and basic and underlying. I believe Buffy only realized it after "Primeval" and harnessing the power of the first Slayer. There is a darkness to being the Slayer that Riley either didn't understand or didn't want to accept.
Amen! Spike was right, as he usually is, Buffy needs a little monster in her man. There is a little monster in Buffy and she needs somebody who gets that. Riley never understood what being the slayer meant, what is was, he never would. Even if she caught that helicopter in time, it never would have worked. Not to mention that he cheated on her with vamp whores and left.
 
^ Was she supposed to force herself to love him? To make the relationship something it just didn't want to be?

Sure, she could have tried harder...but something was *missing* in the relationship. Something primal and basic and underlying. I believe Buffy only realized it after "Primeval" and harnessing the power of the first Slayer. There is a darkness to being the Slayer that Riley either didn't understand or didn't want to accept. We see it in "Buffy vs. Dracula"...Buffy's lying in bed with Riley, wide awake. She glances over at him, gets out of bed, goes on patrol, kills a vampire, makes a very satisfied "ahhh" noise as she does it (we know what that means), and goes back to bed, satisfied and ready to sleep. Something was missing, something she just couldn't get from Riley.

It's easy to say Buffy was in the wrong and she ruined what would have been a beautiful, normal, stable relationship, but I just don't buy that. Riley wasn't the perfect boyfriend and the relationship wasn't the perfect one for Buffy..obviously, or she would have behaved differently. I'm glad it ended rather than Buffy wedging herself and Riley into places they just didn't belong.


I never said she was supposed to force herself to love him. But if she didn't love him, she should have broke it off with him instead of keeping him around just to have someone to hold her and make love to her when she wanted it.
Anyway, I've stated my opinion and that's it. I'm not arguing with anyone, just answering the original question of the thread.
 
I don't think either was wrong. Sometimes relationships just don't work out and this is clearly the case of it happening. It was obvious that she wasn't over Angel. At least, it always was to me. Getting over your first love is never easy, especially with all the drama that they went through for three years. For Riley, Buffy was his first love, and obviously, Angel was Buffy's. So, no one was at fault here. Circumstances that enter the heart and linger are to blame.
 
cryptwarmer
cryptwarmer
I totally agree, neither was wrong, they were two people, with a mutual attraction, who had a relationship that turned out not to be forever. That's it. They weren't well suited to one another, they found it out and parted ways.
I'd agree that Buffy was in the wrong if Riley hadn't been such an enormous tool
 
Amen! Spike was right, as he usually is, Buffy needs a little monster in her man. There is a little monster in Buffy and she needs somebody who gets that.

You don't have to be a monster to understand Buffy. You can understand Buffy as a human as well, Giles and Xander, anyone? I agree that Buffy needs someone who gets her and isn't threatened by her power and leadership, no matter who and what they are.
 
BuffyElevated
BuffyElevated
Very good point... Well said!
I don't think solving their issues is as hard as fans make it out to be. I don't believe in the nonesense that Buffy could only be happy with a vampire. Buffy will be happy with someone who understands her regardless of who he is.
I didn't say she could only be happy with a vampire. That last sentence was the point I was making.
I don't know if Riley didn't understand her as the Slayer, or if something basic was just missing from the relationship. But it's obvious that it all wasn't there somehow and THAT'S why the relationship failed, not due to someone's individual fault.
 
wasn't it just sad when Buffy was running to tell Riley not to go on the helicopter, but she was just seconds too late, damn... oh well 😀.
 
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