Who's side would you have been on...?

Lets be honest here people. This was the wrap up to our beloved show and the writers were trying to do a big story with a small budget. It was nice they went out with a bang, but it was far removed made the characters so much fun was their human failings. The potentials should have been stuck from reality. This relies heavily on suspension of disbelief.
The reality should have went something like: "Potentials, get outside, you don't need to hear this. Giles, you've been a punk rocking demon worshiping Watcher with very little command experience. Faith, a convicted murderer and recovering psychotic, Willow, an addict and control freak, Xander, you're an indecisive buffoon, Robin, you suffer from an over developed sense of vengeance.
The answer was borne out in the plot by havign them fail miserably. They mutinied and paid for it, but the mutiny shouldn't have happened. Rona and Kennedy needed a dose of STFU or go fight an Ubervamp.
 
white avenger
white avenger
Well, yeah, but we have so much fun arguing about it. You aren't trying to deny us that simple pleasure, are you?
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xgirlanachronism245x
Rock on dude. =]
I think it was a very good representation of how humanity at large is hesitant to call evil, that which is clearly evil, let alone stand against it.
 
This one is a tough call.

On one hand, I've NEVER liked how Buffy could get all "high and mighty" when for years she couldn't have done squat without the help of Giles, Xander and Willow. All the speeches and rambling on and on, when we all knew she was just as clueless as everyone else unless and until she got help.
And I didn't like how she'd just throw these "plans" out at meetings. Sure, maybe the potentials didn't need to be in on plan making, but a "sub-meeting" between her, Willow, Xander, Dawn, Anya, Giles, Spike...maybe even Robin would have been ever so helpful. And I think THAT was her big mistake. If she had let the "big players" into the loop, the ones she'd been working WITH for years and let them have some input I don't think it would have gone down the way it did. It's something that has always bugged me.

On the other hand, I would have had a hard time tossing the Slayer out of the loop in the midst of all that was going on. Even (maybe especially) with Faith there.
I think it all could have been handled better by both sides.

I think Buffy should have been making plans WITH her trusted buddies from the get go. Perhaps Giles wouldn't have let Robin try and take Spike out if he had felt like Buffy wasn't pushing everyone away EXCEPT Spike. I'm not sure I would have felt horribly comfortable with that situation if I were Giles either.
I also think, the whole showdown should have been shut down from the get go with Giles, and the Scoobies taking Buffy to another room to discuss things or have discussed their issues with her earlier.

But, I will agree that the BIG GANG UP with an entire room of friends and potentials against her was a bit too harsh. And not really anyone's real style. It all seemed very out of character for everyone...except maybe Kennedy.
 
S
sosa lola
I agree with everything you said.
I woulds so have sided with Buffy. The potentials were acting like petulant children and when Willow sided with them I nearly cried. The fact that they lead a mutany after having been aware of their callings for such a short time is ridiculous. They didn't even know Faith and the fact that they put her in charge is also ridiculous. The girl who has been traitorous and childish throughout the series, suddenly in charge. Then again, they didn't really have the full story which is probably why they chose Faith, out of ignorance. Buffy was totally in the right.

Spike was also completely right when he berated Giles and Faith. I agree with everything he said to them as well. I second his beating up of her to the enth degree.
 
everyone going against buffy was pathetic and what spike says to them about being ungrateful was true.
I think Buffy should have said ''Sorry Willow, but i HAVE to do this'' then proceeded to kick that little petulant brat Kennedys ass all over town : )
 
i completely agree. her family shouldnt have done that. leadership was thrust upon her and they looked to her to lead they should have listened to her.
 
If I had been disatisfied with Buffy's leadership, I would have rejected her, as the Scoobies had done. I don't think she really knew what she was doing. Around that time, she was no more leadership material than Faith. No one had ever taught her to be a leader. And being the leader of a gang of friends is a lot different than heading an army. On the other hand, Buffy should have insisted that everyone - with the exception of Dawn - leave the house. SHE was the one to blame for allowing herself to get kicked out in the first place.


i completely agree. her family shouldnt have done that. leadership was thrust upon her and they looked to her to lead they should have listened to her.
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I don't think so. I don't think it is a good idea to follow the lead of someone you have no faith in. That is a disaster in the making. And at that time, Buffy was not doing a very good job as a leader. I sense that most people believe that the Scoobies and the Potentials should not have rejected Buffy, because she was the series lead. I don't agree. If Buffy seemed to act as a poor leader, I think they had every right to reject her.

I don't believe in blindly following someone's lead.
 
This was a very emotional scene for me, and while I believe that Buffy got a little over-the-top throughout Season 7, I would've totally sided with Buffy in this instance.

First thing I want to say - just to get it out of the way - I've never been a fan of the character of Kennedy, and I often felt myself wondering who she thought she was weighing in like she did. Secondly, despite who was paying the bills or whatever, who in the world had the right to kick Buffy out of her own house?

Lastly, I'm not convinced that anyone in the room had the right to pass judgement on Buffy. She spent her teenage years and her entire adult life as The Slayer, The Chosen One, the one person on whom the fate of the world is supposed to rest. And while there have been others to help in the fight, many with great powers - it's not the same as being The Slayer. The Slayer has this life and overwhelming responsibility thrust on them, often at a young age. She never had the option of walking away, and has always had put her obligation above everything else - something that everyone in the group may understand, but I don't think could ever fully comprehend. Faith is the closest one that could understand it all, but she and Buffy have always been worlds apart as to how they view their calling. Everyone is due the opportunity for redemption, but given Faith's past, I can understand Buffy's reluctance to put the group in her hands. Faith has plenty of experience as a Slayer, but none as a leader.

Again, I see all the sides of this discussion, but in the end - I have to come down on Buffy's side.
 
I'd side with Buffy. I cite a post of mine:

"It's war. Questioning your leader, the strongest person there who has the best chance of keeping you alive, is pretty stupid.
Then again, all the Potentials were morons.

A leader doesn't have to connect. I don't know the President or my high school principal...that gives me the right to defy their authority?

Buffy was better than anyone there with Willow being all anti-magic. She could kill every person in the room. That's power. She has it and they didn't. (well Faith be tough but Buffy would win again).

Faith definitely was used but some of the blame does go to her because she was "the popular mom/teacher" who despite being an authority figure, will be cool with their charges and let them do things. Problem is, you can't let them do those kind of things in these dangerous times. What if Caleb turned up at the club and killed them all? What if that cop had just decided to fire and blow off the Potentials' heads?

Fact is, we saw very clearly how incompetent, worthless and stupid the group was in the end:
"Ding dong the witch is dead."

Oh yes, the anti-Buffy side is filled with intellectuals.

Oh and how about Kennedy:
(to Willow) "Why are you always standing up for [Buffy]?"

Um...does anyone else have to laugh at the idiocy that is Kennedy here? Why does Willow stand up for Buffy? Hm. i dunno. Maybe it's because Buffy has been her closest friends for over half-a-decade, saved her life, saved the lives of her freinds, saved the world and well...hm. Is that good enough reason to stand up for Buffy yet? But I'm sure Ms. "I'm a skank with no experience or power in these situations" knows more.

This quote sums up the whole thing best. It's from a character amed Kain.
"Conscience?! You dare to speak to me of conscience? Only when you have felt the full gravity of choice should you question my judgment. ...To know that the fate of the world hangs on the advisedness of my every deed, can you even begin to concieve what action you would tak ein my position?"

Fact is, Buffy has power, experience, knowledge...more than anyone there. So what right do they have?
And I answer myself: none at all."
 
Exactly. Buffys proved herself a very worthy leader year after year. Willow wouldnt have power at all, had she not met, and been accepted by Buffy and to be honest, i was suprised at Xander.anyhow, after all Buffys done and proved, these idiot potentials just show up out the blue and start questioning Buffy? and her friends join in! fools.(and Buffy was right in the end)
 
I would totally side with Buffy.... like others have mentioned already it is war, and Buffy is the strongest and obviously most consistent figure in battle.

Even though there are many potentials, it doesn't mean they are automatically strong, they need that extra something to cement them together to make them a force and that was Buffy!
 
Buffy would get my vote of course! The best thing with this thread is that it has shown me that there are fans out there who actually thought they did the right thing to kick her out. So maybe the writers didn't mess it up as hard as I thought. When I saw the episode, my reaction was that especially Willow and Dawn acted so much out of character that the whole scene was totally unbelievable. Kick friend and family out of her own house - come on! I can see how the writers tried to work up to this mutiny over time, but I just do not think they did a good enough job.
 
I think the hole scene was kinda extreeme...like the writers wanted her to be out...never liked the scene anyway although spike's loyal come back was neet 🙂
anyway after the vinegard incident I would be dissapointed but I surely wouldn't kick her out...
 
While I do see the Scoobies' point, the writers failed big time with that scene. Even if Xander, Willow and Dawn didn't agree with Buffy's plan, they'd never side with someone else instead of hers.
 
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xgirlanachronism245x
I don't think so. Remember Angel? Xander never really sided with her on that.
^^yes they would, if the situation arose, they'd have too, they aint stupid
 
Buffy shes the best leader there, got them threw everything else.
Funny how they turn on her and how Spikes the bad one when he stuck up for her.
Pretty sad when the "bad guy" is better than your friends.😛
 
xgirlanachronism245x agrees: I don't think so. Remember Angel? Xander never really sided with her on that.
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I said, he may not agree with her, but he'll always take her side, I'll add, when it counts. In Dead Man's Party, Xander didn't agree with her choice to run away, but when zombies showed up, he was by her side fighting.

Here, he was not agreeing with her plan, but why didn't he argue against throwing Buffy out? (Even though she asked for it herself)

"I won't sit here watching her leading you to a disaster," Buffy said.

"Then don't," Dawn replied.
 
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xgirlanachronism245x
True true. Thanks for the clarification.
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