Who's the betrayer?

Who's the betrayer?

  • Willow

    Votes: 7 15.6%
  • Xander

    Votes: 15 33.3%
  • Giles

    Votes: 14 31.1%
  • Faith

    Votes: 4 8.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 5 11.1%

  • Total voters
    45
Xander seems to makes sense on an intuitive level. I dont have much logic behind it,besides the dream buffy has and his past predilection to do careless things. But I have no clue honestly. Willow seems to obvious. Giles wouldnt pack as much punch right now. Spikes going to have a new title,and I think they have more sense than that...though after what theyve done to angel...

Faith is pointless but..theres one person im not seeing being mentioned as a possibility in any of the posts(though i guess it counts as the other in the poll): Dawn.

maybe its just my wishful thinking that buffy would beat the hell out of that kid. i dunno.
 
Mind you I don't think he'll actually betray Buffy; possibly he has an agenda which doesn't serve queen Buffy's agenda though. But he's his own man now; and he might have different plans for the seed. At this point I wouldn't mind it since it would be the only way Spike could leave this season with his head held high.

Besides; apparently you can doom the entire universe and Buffy will still think it was just the most bestest awesweetest superb splendid day ever.

🙄



I hope it's Riley; so that Spike can finally return that plastic stake
 
I think it's Xander. He's probably the one person who isn't drawn to the Seed thingy but rather sees the threat in how the others might be. Lets face it he's watched Buffy and Willow grow more powerful (addicted to power even) through the years... he might do something for the great good that could be counted as a betrayal.
 
If I had to guess at this moment, I would say that the betrayer would be either Giles or Angel. The reason that I say that is that both men have, at least one time in the past, set themselves up as the sole judge of what had to be done "for the greater good," even when doing so would result in life altering changes for others. All that will have to be done in order for Giles, Angel, or both in conspiracy, to betray Buffy is to put the idea in their heads that in doing so would ultimately result in (their interpretation of) the greater good being served. That is not to say that I consider either Giles or Angel is intentionally evil. Vain, egotistical, narrow minded, with delusions of grandeur, yes, but NEVER evil.
 
Really? Despite Scott Allie being so vocal about the theme of s8 being self-betrayal (meaning Buffy is the betrayer)? I am intrigued about #40 reveals.

if the theme is self-betrayal, then 39 just didn't cover it. breaking the seed doesn't make buffy betray herself.

also, there's the frame where buffy's laying on the ground and xander is standing over her. I'm talking the frame that mirror's the frame from that issue a long time ago (everybody knows what i'm talking about, i just can't think of it) where buffy's like "what happens here?" and the dude says about how it's the betrayal. So, I'm thinking xander or angel are still set up to be the betrayers.
 
if the theme is self-betrayal, then 39 just didn't cover it. breaking the seed doesn't make buffy betray herself.

also, there's the frame where buffy's laying on the ground and xander is standing over her. I'm talking the frame that mirror's the frame from that issue a long time ago (everybody knows what i'm talking about, i just can't think of it) where buffy's like "what happens here?" and the dude says about how it's the betrayal. So, I'm thinking xander or angel are still set up to be the betrayers.

Buffy is still the betrayer, she brought on Fray future what she was trying to prevent, she destroyed the slayer line, betrayed her morals all season, and pretty much could have killed Willow in issue#39. Breaking the seed is a result of her betrayals throughout the season, and I have yet to see her blame Angel for anything, like she should have done from the begining.
 
Buffy is still the betrayer, she brought on Fray future what she was trying to prevent, she destroyed the slayer line, betrayed her morals all season, and pretty much could have killed Willow in issue#39. Breaking the seed is a result of her betrayals throughout the season, and I have yet to see her blame Angel for anything, like she should have done from the begining.

i have to disagree with a lot of this.

first: we knew that fray's future was going to happen like 2 years ago. Remember the end of the time of your life arc? Fray was all "we're still alive" and her sis was all like "whoa you're right" so, it's not like that's a surprise.

second: destroying the "slayer line" a) in no way betrays herself, and b) isn't a legitimate thing to say. fray will later be called as a slayer. the slayer line is on hold--not destroyed.

third: i'm not really sure how she betrayed her morals "all season." she stole jewels. bummer. i can admit that's a betrayal of morals, but it really stops there. we can argue whether or not using guns is a betrayal of morals, but the fact is that it simply isn't: guns were necessary in a fight against evil, plain and simple. "oh, but they were soldiers." too bad. the soldiers were using guns, too. "but fighting fire with fire isn't moral!" i'd agree with this if they knew what they were doing with them. while i don't agree with gun use, it's not like she was making some huge unbelievable power play in using them--her troops were far less skilled with gun use than her adversaries. if anything, she was evening the playing field, and not even that: 100s of dudes trained for months in gun-use are way more adapt at using them than hundreds of girls (or people, if you will) who have no professional training whatsoever. while using guns might have been a moral "no-no," it's not like they had any idea what they were doing. "but xander helped them!" who cares? he's not military. "but remember that one time season one when he was all military?" yeah, i remember. if his hand-to-hand is any evidence of what he's capable of (and it should be) then he's forgotten pretty much everything and is just going on what he remembers from that one time he was in "apocalypse now" s4-style.

edit: also, if "banging angel when she wasnt supposed to" is supposed to be immoral,then buffy is immoral all the time. if buffy was in "street fighter," then "banging dudes when she ought not to" would be her special move.

fourth: why would she wanted to have killed willow? yeah, she could have killed her. she could have killed anyone, actually. but she didn't. no disrespect, but i'm not really sure why this matters.

all breaking the seed does is stops any sort of magic from coming into the earth that wasn't already there. in short, all spells that already have been cast still work (unless theyre dependent on a certain deity) but slayerhood isn't-- it's dependent on those four prehistoric dudes from s7, and theyre earthbound. buffy should still be a slayer, and so should any of the other girls (who havent already been melted). breaking the seed isn't "a result of her self betrayals," it's just an easy way to end the bullsh!t without killing angel. i can admit that's lame and stupid, but that's not what this post is about. what i'm saying is, if we're supposed to believe that the "big betrayal" is supposed to be buffy breaking the seed, then i want my money back. she isn't betraying herself at all. she;d just breaking the seed. she doesn't change once the seed is broken. aside from willow (her aid in all this) not being able to receive messages or whatever, she isnt affected at all.

also, dawn didnt die and that sucks.
 
i have to disagree with a lot of this.

first: we knew that fray's future was going to happen like 2 years ago. Remember the end of the time of your life arc? Fray was all "we're still alive" and her sis was all like "whoa you're right" so, it's not like that's a surprise.

second: destroying the "slayer line" a) in no way betrays herself, and b) isn't a legitimate thing to say. fray will later be called as a slayer. the slayer line is on hold--not destroyed.

third: i'm not really sure how she betrayed her morals "all season." she stole jewels. bummer. i can admit that's a betrayal of morals, but it really stops there. we can argue whether or not using guns is a betrayal of morals, but the fact is that it simply isn't: guns were necessary in a fight against evil, plain and simple. "oh, but they were soldiers." too bad. the soldiers were using guns, too. "but fighting fire with fire isn't moral!" i'd agree with this if they knew what they were doing with them. while i don't agree with gun use, it's not like she was making some huge unbelievable power play in using them--her troops were far less skilled with gun use than her adversaries. if anything, she was evening the playing field, and not even that: 100s of dudes trained for months in gun-use are way more adapt at using them than hundreds of girls (or people, if you will) who have no professional training whatsoever. while using guns might have been a moral "no-no," it's not like they had any idea what they were doing. "but xander helped them!" who cares? he's not military. "but remember that one time season one when he was all military?" yeah, i remember. if his hand-to-hand is any evidence of what he's capable of (and it should be) then he's forgotten pretty much everything and is just going on what he remembers from that one time he was in "apocalypse now" s4-style.

edit: also, if "banging angel when she wasnt supposed to" is supposed to be immoral,then buffy is immoral all the time. if buffy was in "street fighter," then "banging dudes when she ought not to" would be her special move.

fourth: why would she wanted to have killed willow? yeah, she could have killed her. she could have killed anyone, actually. but she didn't. no disrespect, but i'm not really sure why this matters.

all breaking the seed does is stops any sort of magic from coming into the earth that wasn't already there. in short, all spells that already have been cast still work (unless theyre dependent on a certain deity) but slayerhood isn't-- it's dependent on those four prehistoric dudes from s7, and theyre earthbound. buffy should still be a slayer, and so should any of the other girls (who havent already been melted). breaking the seed isn't "a result of her self betrayals," it's just an easy way to end the bullsh!t without killing angel. i can admit that's lame and stupid, but that's not what this post is about. what i'm saying is, if we're supposed to believe that the "big betrayal" is supposed to be buffy breaking the seed, then i want my money back. she isn't betraying herself at all. she;d just breaking the seed. she doesn't change once the seed is broken. aside from willow (her aid in all this) not being able to receive messages or whatever, she isnt affected at all.

also, dawn didnt die and that sucks.

first: We have known since TOYL Buffy was trying to prevent Fray future, instead she's responsible for it, doesn't matter if we have known about it for two years.

second:The slayer line was destroyed with the scythe, only the already called slayers remain. Buffy was trying to protect the slayers, not only did she endanger them, she betrayed them twice in issue#33-39. Buffy was responsible for the slayers, she failed to protect their futures. Its perfectly legimate to say this, Buffy has nothing to do with Fray being a slayer that we have any evidence of, so she doesn't get any credit for it.

third: Stealing is wrong, she ignored innocents in TOYL, sleeping with Angel is so wrong on many levels, you've heard the phrase "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibiltiy" Buffy wasn't responsible and she let her powers corrupt her.

fourth:Willow was up 50/60 ft in the air, in the middle of a battle, so yeah she could have died, and is possibly crippled.
The betrayal was never just about the seed, destroying the seed was a result of her not sticking to her morals. The betrayal scene was about Buffy realizing how much she had lost the mission, she lost in all season, not just in the last scene. Willow isn't the only witch in Buffy's world, nor is Buffy the only slayer, what Buffy did would affect millons, not just Willow.Willow already gave her powers so the way it happened this time is devestating. Willow lost more than Buffy could even understand, and Willlow is not season 6 Willow, nor a magic addict, so its really wrong the way it happened, even though it saved the world. If you've seen X-Men 3, it be like someone forcing one of the mutants to take the cure even if they didn't want it. I agree its lame that they had her break the seed, or else she have to kill Angel.
 
It's definetely Willow. Cue witches all screaming "We lost" a few chapters ago.

third: Stealing is wrong, she ignored innocents in TOYL, sleeping with Angel is so wrong on many levels, you've heard the phrase "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility" Buffy wasn't responsible and she let her powers corrupt her

I've got to agree with that. I've been hearing ad nauseam about how great and infallible Buffy is. I thought Seasons 1-7 made it clear she wasn't, and that was what set her apart from other heroines.

fourth:Willow was up 50/60 ft in the air, in the middle of a battle, so yeah she could have died, and is possibly crippled.
Died? VERY unlikely. They just did away with someone else (go read it yourself, I'm not too sure about the spoiler rule here), so a seond major is unlikely.

The betrayal was never just about the seed, destroying the seed was a result of her not sticking to her morals. The betrayal scene was about Buffy realizing how much she had lost the mission, she lost in all season, not just in the last scene. Willow isn't the only witch in Buffy's world, nor is Buffy the only slayer, what Buffy did would affect millons, not just Willow.Willow already gave her powers so the way it happened this time is devestating. Willow lost more than Buffy could even understand, and Willlow is not season 6 Willow, nor a magic addict, so its really wrong the way it happened, even though it saved the world.

I'm not sure it actually saved the world, if you realise that we haven't answered the question of what happens to the vampires: do they become mortal, or are they the last supernaturals around? If it's the latter, there could be problems.

On Xander...

Xander seems to makes sense on an intuitive level. I dont have much logic behind it,besides the dream buffy has and his past predilection to do careless things. But I have no clue honestly. Willow seems to obvious. Giles wouldnt pack as much punch right now. Spikes going to have a new title,and I think they have more sense than that...though after what theyve done to angel...
I think it's Xander. He's probably the one person who isn't drawn to the Seed thingy but rather sees the threat in how the others might be. Lets face it he's watched Buffy and Willow grow more powerful (addicted to power even) through the years... he might do something for the great good that could be counted as a betrayal.

Very unlikely. Xander doesn't actually have any power per se. He's a watcher with no powers, and can't do anything to change affairs. Even if he stops taking a commanding role, what happens? The slayers all will just act on their own accord. And unless they're so ill-disciplined that this creates chaos, there should be a standard operating proceddure/similar in such situations.

You remember that the core idea of Xander's being there was as a VERY unlucky guy who would have been sidelined if not for who he knows.

also, there's the frame where buffy's laying on the ground and xander is standing over her. I'm talking the frame that mirror's the frame from that issue a long time ago (everybody knows what i'm talking about, i just can't think of it) where buffy's like "what happens here?" and the dude says about how it's the betrayal. So, I'm thinking xander or angel are still set up to be the betrayers.

Angel, maybe.
But that would mean the betrayal was long ago when Angel restarted Twilight.

Xander? See above.
 
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