Why are movies so bad?

Skanky Vamp

Sniffin' the Slayer
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
26,460
Black Thorn
excerpts from the article:

"There are a lot of reasons that movies have been so bad during the last couple of years and probably won’t be any better for the next couple of years. One big reason is that rotten pictures are making money—not necessarily wild amounts (though a few are), but sizable amounts. So if studio heads want nothing more than to make money and grab power, there is no reason for them to make better ones. Turning out better pictures might actually jeopardize their position."

"The studios no longer make movies primarily to attract and please moviegoers; they make movies in such a way as to get as much as possible from the prearranged and anticipated deals. Every picture (allowing for a few exceptions) is cast and planned in terms of those deals. Though the studio is very happy when it has a box-office hit, it isn’t terribly concerned about the grumbling."

"Financially, the industry is healthy, so among the people at the top there seems to be little recognition of what miserable shape movies are in. They think the grosses are proof that people are happy with what they’re getting, rather than what they settle for. Executives don’t necessarily see many movies themselves, and they rarely go to a theatre. If for the last couple of years Hollywood couldn’t seem to do anything right, it isn’t that it was just a stretch of bad luck—it’s the result of recent developments within the industry. And in all probability it will get worse, not better."

"the studios have discovered how to take the risk out of moviemaking, they don’t want to make any movies that they can’t protect themselves on. Production and advertising costs have gone so high that there is genuine nervous panic about risky projects. If an executive finances what looks like a perfectly safe, stale piece of material and packs it with stars, and the production costs skyrocket way beyond the guarantees, and the picture loses many millions, they won’t be blamed for it—they were playing the game by the same rules as everybody else."

"The executives are a managerial class with no real stake in the studio; they didn’t build it, it’s not part of them, and they’re moving on—into a bigger job at another studio, or into independent production, or to form their own companies. The executives just try to hold things together for the short period that they’re going to be around; there isn’t even an elementary regard for the conservation of talent. And, as in any chaotic bureaucracy, the personalities and goals of those at the top set the tone for all the day-to-day decisions; the top executives’ apathy about the quality of movies infects the studio right down the line."

"Part of what has deranged American life in this past decade is the change in ... movies as they have passed out of the control of those whose lives were bound up in them and into the control of conglomerates, financiers, and managers who treat them as ordinary commodities. This isn’t a reversible process; even if there were Supreme Court rulings that split some of these holdings from the conglomerates, the traditions that developed inside many of those businesses have been ruptured. And the continuity is gone."

excerpts from The New Yorker, June 23, 1980

I thought it interesting. Same thing could be said today.
 
The rot goes back a lot further than that. We had the silent movie era that has its repercussions today. The original screenwriters were called "scenario writers" because you couldn't put more than a few infrequent panels of dialog in a silent movie. The movie director was much more powerful in terms of getting what the producer wanted on the screen. Screenwriters after the talkies era started were not elevated in status. Contrast that with television where good writers get much more respect. In television, good writing was paramount and the directors had limited power.

I'm not saying directors are bad guys. They have to handle the day-to-day production issues. If someone comes in and says, "I have flowers here for the leading lady", he has to know where to put them and thousands of other details on the set. He may have to handle late deliveries, obnoxious stars and the filming budget. But if he tweaks the design of the story, then you lose the original intent of the screenplay (and to be honest, some of them should be tweaked).

Screenwriters are supposed to "celebrate" that movie making is a collaborative process and the vision of the screenwriter is frequently cast aside because the division of labour is such that it can be modified. And producers love to go to cocktail parties and tell people, "You know that scene where the ship blows up in the middle of space? I added that in", even if the scene made no sense In television, there usually isn't as much time for a producer to meddle with the contents of a story because the writing only stays ahead of the story by a small amount of time on the calendar.

Financial issues have been part of movies for all the time they have existed. The common attitude in business is to adopt a policy of worrying about the next quarter and not worrying about long-term success. And some people become movie moguls without a clue what they are doing. Sony pictures took a long time before they figured out that you can't put a story on the screen with the same sort of management that makes the screen. I can't remember the last time I went to the movies. The perfect storm of increasing prices and plummeting quality has left me with no such desire.
 
Man, the 80's. A golden age of VHS and so many exciting low-budget films taking risks. So much good, quite a bit of dross.

Anyway I think some in Hollywood nowadays are quicker on the uptake that the film industry is 'in crisis' but maybe not for the reasons other people (internet critics for example) think. If the producers DO pivot they may do so in the complete wrong direction and things will get worse.

I'm not sure what's going to change but I think its going to take a while, and some movie studios/film companies may not last long enough to survive. Example Bob Iger fought off a take-over bid but the stock tanked anyway. Disney is floundering quite a bit and seems very slow about realizing the mountain of reasons that have brought it to such a low place.
 
Bob Iger fought off a take-over bid
Peltz was fighting for a board seat only, not a takeover. Iger was never at risk of losing his board seat, only losing board seats of some of his cronies. It was not a true takeover.
 
thetopher
thetopher
True, but it might be the end of the line for ol' Bob.
The profit motive has existed in art since art has existed. And at every point along the way there have been people sitting around sniffing their own farts, thinking their tastes are so superior to the mainstream or that things were so much better in whatever era of movies was their own favorite.

The reality is that the overwhelming majority of all art, in any medium, at any point in time, is probably going to be trash. Movies in the 1980s, music in the 2000s, video games in the 1990s, comic books in the 2010s, paintings in the 1700s, it doesn't matter. Whatever the current flavor of the month to hate on is will eventually fade away and people will remember the stuff that truly made an impact. And then, decades later, people will pretend like those were the only ones that mattered when they look back and try to convince strangers on the internet that their own generation really had all the best stuff. When people think of 1990s gaming they fondly remember Sonic the Hedgehog or Super Mario World or Street Fighter II and remember how awesome those games were, but they don't remember the massive wave of awful sports titles or full motion video titles that were barely interactive or that awkward era of early 3D gaming where everything ran at 15 frames per second and took forever to load.

There was never an era of movies where the studios weren't just out to make money. That's literally why movie studios exist in the first place.
 
Luckily not all films were made in Hollywood and not all films were made or funded by a big production company. I have a film that was made on a shoestring budget and the directors commentary tells the story of how cuts were made. How a film appears to be made is also dependent on the editing process. A poorly made film can be improved no end on the editing process a big help is the music, even a few seconds of good music can help a film gather success - take The Exorcist and its music from Tubular Bells.
 
There are three big issues I have with movies these days, mostly relating to sequels/spinoffs.

1) Going for "More" instead of "Better". This is especially a problem with sequels. They look at what people liked about the first movie and decide that subsequent movies just need more of that. Cases in point: Thor 3 vs. Thor 4. What worked well in 3 was overdone in 4. Pirates of the Caribbean. People like weird Jack in the first movie, so we double then triple the weirdness in sequels. Became even more of an issue when Depp started bringing that personality into other roles.

2) Originality: Both The Force Awakens and Matrix Resurrection had the same problem. I've seen this film. In fact, I've seen this film in this franchise. I'm trying to find it, but someone on another site did a two page review (so not just a line or two) without names and locations, and then asked whether he was reviewing New Hope or TFA. You couldn't tell, yet the review was entirely accurate.

3) The video game scene(s). This goes all the way back to Return of the Jedi, but became pronounced with the prequel trilogy. Scenes that seem to serve no purpose except to be an action scene in the video game that will spin off the movie.
 
Everyone says they just want original content from Disney but then people were so happy to hate on Wish, which was an original movie, as in it wasn't a sequel or made from an existing property. So I say bring on Toy Story 10.
 
Everyone says they just want original content from Disney but then people were so happy to hate on Wish, which was an original movie, as in it wasn't a sequel or made from an existing property. So I say bring on Toy Story 10.

People don’t know what they want.

I’ve seen people whine and complain and moan for Star Wars to have new stories with new characters, only for a barrage of complaints to happen around the new game, Outlaws, because it isn’t about Han Solo
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bop
Everyone says they just want original content from Disney but then people were so happy to hate on Wish, which was an original movie, as in it wasn't a sequel or made from an existing property. So I say bring on Toy Story 10.

Wasn’t it mostly the internet that hated on Wish, though? Everyone I know that went to see it with their kids loved it enough to go see it twice in the theatre!

Small sample group granted, but the opinions I saw online versus IRL were miles apart.

Toy story 10 would probably be received well too though
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bop
Wish just happened to be original AND have a garbage, morally bankrupt plot. A film can be two things at once, doesn't change the fact that people, in general, are tired of corporations slamming IP after IP into the ground with appalling regularity and dire writing.

Wish was bad because Disney, not because 'people don't know what they want'. Same as Strange Worlds, Lightyear and Elemental all flopped badly, the messages pushed are crap and the writing talent just isn't there.
 
Wasn’t it mostly the internet that hated on Wish, though?

Exactly, I think a lot of people who hated on Wish online just wanted it to be bad because it was celebrating Disney's 100th anniversary and they're unhappy with Disney.

Wish just happened to be original AND have a garbage, morally bankrupt plot.

I thought the plot was the best thing about Wish so that's just another comment I don't agree with, along with 'the songs are awful' which isn't true either imo. That's what it comes down to, if someone doesn't like all of Disney/Pixar's recent films they can continue to be on the bandwagon that everything is awful. But if someone actually thinks some of them are good or decent it gets tiring hearing so much of the internet hate on those films when they're original (and good in your opinion) and then at the same time complain about lack of originality and all the sequels being announced.
 
I thought the plot was the best thing about Wish

lol really? I thought the protagonist was probably one of the biggest entitled brats every put on screen. Each to their own I guess.

along with 'the songs are awful' which isn't true either imo.

Never said this so I'm baffled why its aimed at me.

That's what it comes down to, if someone doesn't like all of Disney/Pixar's recent films they can continue to be on the bandwagon that everything is awful.

It's not a bandwagon, or a narrative pushed by haters, or by a toxic fandom, it is observable fact.

You can tell that its observable fact because the normies have started to catch on are are now avoiding Disney movies as a matter of course. Which is why they bomb. Which is why Hollywood is panicking and why many writers are now out of work and loudly complaining about it.


But if someone actually thinks some of them are good or decent it gets tiring hearing so much of the internet hate on those films when they're original (and good in your opinion) and then at the same time complain about lack of originality and all the sequels being announced.

Sorry, but this is just bizarre reasoning to me; should they instead be saying 'this is original! Don't complain about it even if its dire, it's new!' Nope.

If a thing is awful then surely that fact should be pointed out and not hidden so then writers will have to start writing awful original stuff instead of ruining IP's. What we need is fresh writers, which at this point means a cultural shift away from those who have brought us to this place.


I think there is plenty of good quality stuff out there, but it's spread over multiple streaming platforms and tends to be TV series focused. Watch that stuff if you're tired of the haters.
 
Sorry, but this is just bizarre reasoning to me; should they instead be saying 'this is original! Don't complain about it even if its dire, it's new!'
You would be surprised the amount of people that like. They won't criticize a movie because people made it.
Hell, there is even a movie "critic" that refuses to be critical of bad movies because "people work on the movies so we should be nice about reviews."
People cannot criticize a movie (or movie trailer) anymore without getting labeled X,Y, or Zed.
 
Hell, there is even a movie "critic" that refuses to be critical of bad movies because "people work on the movies so we should be nice about reviews."

Oh, Stuckmann? Yeah, he got hosed for that, even by longtime fans. Of course because he only reviews 'good movies' and didn't review Madame Web then he is therefor saying that its a terrible movie...I'm sure the director/writers/actresses were all very hurt by his scathing non-commentary.

But saying (or not) something is 'terrible' isn't very useful as a review, I would like to know why something is bad or good or middling or Oscar-worthy and what its faults and weaknesses are, I always presumed that is where the skill or analysis of being a movie reviewers would come in, but whatever.


Recently I was very amused by the reviews for the new film 'Civil War' by critics who liked it...but they would've liked it more if they'd been told what to think, if the film had been 'clearer' and 'less even handed'. Their critique were mostly pretty shallow praise but they still 'certified it fresh'.
 
You can tell that its observable fact because the normies have started to catch on are are now avoiding Disney movies as a matter of course. Which is why they bomb. Which is why Hollywood is panicking and why many writers are now out of work and loudly complaining about it.

Or it's because everyone is online and if you're online it's hard to escape the relentless negativity directed at Wish or Disney in general. Of course it's souring things for people. It's going to make people less likely to go and see Wish and films like it.
I don't think this is a world in which the best movies get the highest box office and the worst get the lowest.
It's naive to ignore all the other factors going into it.
 
Or it's because everyone is online and if you're online it's hard to escape the relentless negativity directed at Wish or Disney in general. Of course it's souring things for people. It's going to make people less likely to go and see Wish and films like it.
So it's better to trick people by saying the movie is great and fantastic only for them to get them and realize how horrible it is? That's not a very feasible business plan if you rely on consumer retention. I remember when James Cameron said Terminator Genisys was super great and awesome. Those comments didnt age well once people started seeing the movie. Just like Kevin Smith is a huge schill now and people have stopped listening to him.
 
Back
Top Bottom