Question Why Bangel Doesn't Work For You?

[Emzzie]

Honestly, its quite rude how you completley ignore us when several of us have asked you to stop politely. This is NOT a debate thread or a defend Bangel thread and I don't know how many times we need to say that. I'm not going to go over to the "Why Spuffy does not work for you?" thread and start doing this. Just STOP please. Its making alot of people get really upset. As CordyandXander said, Sorry if I sound bossy, but this is the fourth time I've mentioned it as well as a number of complaints from other people.

 

[Flannen]

Okay guys, let's keep these threads about what they are about. This is a thread about what people don't like about Bangel. I've been guilty of posting in here myself, but since the first time a member commented on the nature of this thread, I've made a conscious effort to stop.

It's not just in this thread, there are similar occurrences in 'opposing' threads, so lets all bear in mind what the threads are for and keep on topic. We don't want every single thread to descend into shipping chaos, especially when its upsetting your fellow members. 😉

 

[white avenger]

I just saw too much negative in the relationship. Angel seemed to make Buffy cry a lot more than he ever made her laugh, a small thing, perhaps, for a lot of people, but important to me. Love should be about happiness, not tears. (I know, Spuffy isn't all grins and giggles either, but this thread is about why Bangel doesn't work)

And let's not forget that nasty ol' curse thing. Forget about sex, because that really isn't the issue as much as PERFECT HAPPINESS, something that Buffy and Angel can never have.

Those are the reasons why what we refer to as Bangel can never work for me, and coincidentally, can't work for Buffy and Angel either. That in no way rules out an entirely new relationship for these two crazy kisd sometime in the future, but that will be something totally different from what we now refer to as Bangel. Buth characters will be older and, hopefully more experienced and mature, and the major obstacles to their new relationship, namely the Gypsy curse, Buffy's overflowing tear ducts, and Angel's fascination for sitting in dark rooms belaboring himself over events in the past, over which he had no real control. Joss and the writers have gone to great lengths to establish the fact that Angelus and Angel are as close to two seperate entities as can be realized while occupying the same skin. Someone needs to clue Angel in to that fact.

If we can have Angel and Angelus as two separate characters, then we can have Bangel and...Angffy...as two separate relationships. Bangel's time is past. If you want Buffy and Angel together, then plan on Angffy. That's the hope for the future. Even if the name does suck.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Maybe that's true. 🙂 But IMO it's extremely unlikely that either one will end up with ANYONE. They're heroes. They'll live alone, and they'll die alone. As said in Becoming Part 2, the only person you ever really have is yourself. 😀 And I'm glad. I really, really don't want to see Buffy in some happy relationship with a nice, normal guy (or human Angel/ Spike) that leads to kids, grandkids, and baking cookies. It's just not Buffy. She's a very independent woman; She doesn't need a man or a woman to complete her. In the end, she'll be standing alone. 😀

Yes, but even though Buffy obviously doesn't need a man to complete her, she obviously wants one. As last weeks issue illustrates, Buffy very much wants a relationship. As much as I believe she can and does stand well on her own, she shouldn't have to sacrifice her personal happiness for her mission. She's sacrificed so much already.

I believe what Buffy needs is not only a boyfriend, but a confidant, an ally, and someone to fight alongside her in her mission. Someone like Spike.

As for the heart thing, I was just being technical, as Kelsey said. 🙂 It's my assumption that people always refer to their heart when discussing their feelings because your heart is essentially what's keeping you alive. It's always beating, and can slow down or speed up. If it stops for a moment, you could die. It's like the whole of your being. The same with your soul. IMO, "souls" are just a whole lotta nonsense. 😀 I'm both an atheist and an extremely logical thinker (i'd hope 😀 ) so I really only humor the soul thing for the benefits of the 'verse. 😀 Not that that had to do with anything... 😀

In response to this whole debate on love and logic, all I have to say is that what you love is not always good for you. Hence, Buffy and Angel. Period. I believe truly that despite their love for each other, Buffy and Angel brought each other more pain than good. True, you can not choose who you love, as Kean said, but you can choose to not remain with someone who you know is wrong for you, despite the fact that you love them. This is what Buffy did when she let Angel go, which is something I thinks he did a long time ago.

As much as I'm rooting for the Spuffy team, I have to agree with you, wishing oceans, regarding heroes being alone. I believe, when all is said and done, Angel and Buffy will end up alone. Joss won't ever just wrap up his story prettily with a little piece of ribbon and say,
"OK, done. And Buffy is with *drum roll*..ANGEL! or SPIKE!"

You know what I mean? That way, both parties will be relatively happy.

I believe in Buffy and Angel both individually and as a couple more than anything else in this verse so there really isn't a force on this planet that could dissuade me in my belief that they are ultimately "it" for one another, and always have been.

This is exactly how I, and many, feel about Spuffy - get it?

Kean, this is exactly why I love you so much and why I am so glad you're a member on this board. Your passion for this couple, your unfaltering belief in them and their future together, is truly inspiring - and I mean that in all honesty.

To be completely honest with you, I don't feel that confidant about Spuffy as you feel about Bangel.

I believe, unquestionably, that Buffy loved Spike. I believe Spike was perfect for her. They were, are, and will always be my favorite Whedonverse couple. I believe they complete each other, challenge each other, and are soul mates - just as you believe, I'm sure, the same for Bangel.

Yet, the fact of the matter is, there is so much more hope for Bangel, and I'm jealous of that.

Just as you believe in Bangel more then anything in the 'verse, I believe in Buffy and Spike's bond more then anything in the 'verse. Spike will always be in her heart, and no one will ever replace him in my opinion. For me, Spike is her true love.

But here I am, rambling again.

My whole point of this post was to say just how much I admire your certainty in the ship you love. 🙂 I always enjoy reading what you have to say Kean, even if I disagree.

---------- Post added at 12:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:19 PM ----------

If we can have Angel and Angelus as two separate characters, then we can have Bangel and...Angffy...as two separate relationships. Bangel's time is past. If you want Buffy and Angel together, then plan on Angffy. That's the hope for the future. Even if the name does suck.

Ok, back on topic....

The idea of Angelus and Buffy is so disturbing, seriously. I think all of the reasons you stated are a perfect answer to why "Bangel doesn't work for me", as well.

 

[Kean]

This is exactly how I, and many, feel about Spuffy - get it?

Kean, this is exactly why I love you so much and why I am so glad you're a member on this board. Your passion for this couple, your unfaltering belief in them and their future together, is truly inspiring - and I mean that in all honesty.

To be completely honest with you, I don't feel that confidant about Spuffy as you feel about Bangel.

I believe, unquestionably, that Buffy loved Spike. I believe Spike was perfect for her. They were, are, and will always be my favorite Whedonverse couple. I believe they complete each other, challenge each other, and are soul mates - just as you believe, I'm sure, the same for Bangel.

Yet, the fact of the matter is, there is so much more hope for Bangel, and I'm jealous of that.

Just as you believe in Bangel more then anything in the 'verse, I believe in Buffy and Spike's bond more then anything in the 'verse. Spike will always be in her heart, and no one will ever replace him in my opinion. For me, Spike is her true love.

But here I am, rambling again.

My whole point of this post was to say just how much I admire your certainty in the ship you love. 🙂 I always enjoy reading what you have to say Kean, even if I disagree.

:blush:

Thanks Hun *hugs*

Believe me I do "get it". The fact of the matter is I would never expect any real shipper to accept defeat. Like I said there is nothing anybody could say to dissuade me from Bangel and I think I would think less of someone who could be talked out of a ship that they have invested so much in. I really do respect how hardcore you ship Spuffy (even if I think you are a thubdering luney for doing it 😛 😛 😛). I disagree with alot of it but I appreciate you standing by your convictions, just as I stand by mine 🙂

Also, you're oint about Angelus and Buffy? That is exactly how I feel about Spike and Buffy. Same feeling, different faces.

However, this thread has gotten too far off track, as has alot of the ship threads lately. I have been staying out of the Spuffy threads simply because I don't see the point in trying to talk someone out of their ship in a thread that wasn't set up for that purpose. All this back and forth is killing the fun of these discussions, not everyone may feel that way but I certainly know a few people who do and it isn't fair. So maybe we could keep our shippers cool for awhile guys and just enjoy them for what they are instead hating other ships for what they aren't. 🙂

 

[thevikingsgirl]

I like Buffy, and I like Angel. But when they're together, I don't like either of them. I watch my tough, resilient Buffy turn into a crying, whining, clinging little girl. IMO, they bring out the worst in each other. Together, they are both annoying and in some cases nearly unwatchable. I even like her with Riley better than with Angel. I think Angel and Cordelia would've been a better match. That's one reason I was so irritated with the direction season 4 of Angel took - we never got to see them give it a try. I liked Angel and Darla better than Angel and Buffy too. So basically, I like both characters separately, but when they're together I can't stand either one of them.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

When Buffy was with Angel she was a teen. She whined for a lot of things, like school and how she doesn't have any free time for her social life. It wasn't only because of Angel.

 

[thevikingsgirl]

It was much, much more intense with Angel. And she wasn't a highschooler in I Will Remember. Clingy, whiny. Blech.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

It was much, much more intense with Angel. And she wasn't a highschooler in I Will Remember. Clingy, whiny. Blech.

So, you wouldn't cry if man you love give up the best chance of happiness? Well, wow, you must be even stronger the Buffy.

 

[Kelsey]

PrincessBuffy, you know this thread is for Anti-Bangels. People who have participated in this thread have asked repeatedly that Bangels not argue when we try to say our opinions, which is what this thread is about. You're either not understanding that, or you're purposefully ignoring it.

 

[thevikingsgirl]

Buffy cries plenty throughout the show. It's not just that. She is like a different person when Angel's around. Weaker, whinier, clingier. This is my opinion. You obviously don't agree, Princess, but arguing isn't going to change my mind. His decision to leave was paternalistic - he left for his idea of Buffy's own good. Like she was just a little girl incapable of determining what was best for her. And honestly, when he's around, that's exactly what she is, and that's why I hate Bangel despite my genuine affection for both characters as individuals.

 

[Emzzie]

I definitley agree with the Vikingsgirl. I think Buffy was young and the relationship was a young love sort of thing. I think the relationship was whiny and sappy. Buffy IMO was more clingy and whiny with him. She was not mature enough yet for him and therefore they missed their time together and I don't think they will ever get a chance. Nor do I think her and Spike will, so it is not just because I am a spuffy.

I agree with Kelsey. You've ignored people asking to stop so many times that a MOD had to come and ask you to stop. It's time to stop PB. I now hate Bangel because I'm getting opinions that are not my own shoved down my throat and feel like I cannot share my opinions without somebody trying to pick a fight and that has caused me to resent the relationship. This is not helping the Bangels, it is just dividing the fandom on this board even more.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I like Buffy, and I like Angel. But when they're together, I don't like either of them. I watch my tough, resilient Buffy turn into a crying, whining, clinging little girl. IMO, they bring out the worst in each other. Together, they are both annoying and in some cases nearly unwatchable. I even like her with Riley better than with Angel. I think Angel and Cordelia would've been a better match. That's one reason I was so irritated with the direction season 4 of Angel took - we never got to see them give it a try. I liked Angel and Darla better than Angel and Buffy too. So basically, I like both characters separately, but when they're together I can't stand either one of them.

You took the words out of my mouth as well, like Oriana said.

This is exactly how I feel. I didn't even care for Angel until he got his own show, when he stopped being in the shadow of Buffy as her love interest. Now, he's my third favorite character.
But yes, when Buff and Angel are together, it's just either nasty or bittersweet - neither of which I care for, honestly.

---------- Post added at 09:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 AM ----------

Buffy cries plenty throughout the show. It's not just that. She is like a different person when Angel's around. Weaker, whinier, clingier. This is my opinion. You obviously don't agree, Princess, but arguing isn't going to change my mind. His decision to leave was paternalistic - he left for his idea of Buffy's own good. Like she was just a little girl incapable of determining what was best for her. And honestly, when he's around, that's exactly what she is, and that's why I hate Bangel despite my genuine affection for both characters as individuals.

*nods*

Very true, very true.

Sometimes, even if you love someone, the best thing for them is for you to leave. Like with Tara and Willow. Tara left her even though she obviously still loved her. And by leaving her because of her misuse of magic, Willow realized her problem.

You can't help who you fall in love with true, but when you realize you're wrong for each other - as Bangel obviously was - you can choose to end it. That's what Angel did. Angel made the right decision, and as a result, Buffy's better for it. If Angel hadn't left her she'd never gotten together with Spike, after all. ;0

---------- Post added at 09:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:31 AM ----------

So, you wouldn't cry if man you love give up the best chance of happiness? Well, wow, you must be even stronger the Buffy.

Hun, you know I love you, but you really should stay out of this thread - it will only upset you! Just as I choose to stay out of the "Bangel Appreciation Thread" or the "Why Doesn't Spuffy Work For You?" threads. Those would really anger me! 🙂

 

[Emzzie]

So, you wouldn't cry if man you love give up the best chance of happiness? Well, wow, you must be even stronger the Buffy.

I think it was fair to make the assumption that that was sarcasm. We both know she is not stronger than Buffy (even though I'm sure you are strong VG 😛 ) It came across as sarcasm. I dont see a valid way for that not to be unless you honestly think that she is stronger than her.

Let's end it at that and stop trying to pick debates about these things. It was her opinion to start with and again this is getting way off of the topic this thread is supposed to be about.

 

[Flannen]

I'm closing this thread. The OP has got all the info they need so we'll lay this one to rest now 🙂