How come Faith, Spike, Willow, Anya were able to get away with murder and in Buffy's eyes they're redeemed as good guys, but Andrew gets bashed from EVERYONE including Mr. Hypocrite Xander who bashes Andrew & Spike for being "killers" yet he still had sex with Anya aka a killer
Why can Spike, Willow, Faith, Anya get redeemed to Buffy
- Thread starter Joshua
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I don't really think Andrew gets bash, and I think he is just as redeemed as anyone else.
He was the bad guy for a full season (okay, Warren was the real bad guy, but Andrew was still a "villain"), and by s8, he is a respectable leader in Buffy's army, you can't get much more redeemed than that in my opinion.
Andrew might get a bit of smack, but he deserves that smack, and although I agree Xander can be a bit hypocritical with Anya, let's not forget that by the end he is pretty much friends with Andrew.
He was the bad guy for a full season (okay, Warren was the real bad guy, but Andrew was still a "villain"), and by s8, he is a respectable leader in Buffy's army, you can't get much more redeemed than that in my opinion.
Andrew might get a bit of smack, but he deserves that smack, and although I agree Xander can be a bit hypocritical with Anya, let's not forget that by the end he is pretty much friends with Andrew.
B
Buffyverse Fan
Yes! Heck, by S9, Andrew seems to be the most trusted of the Scoobies
R
Robb Stark
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white avenger
white avenger
Maybe it's because all of the other characters underwent some drastic, specific, time of redemption. Spike got his soul, Faith went to prison, and only escaped because Angel needed her, Willow spent the summer in England, being coached and cared for by Giles and the Coven, and Anya went against the Vengeance Demon Code and made D'Hoffran her lifelong enemy by rescinding one of her spells. Basically, they each had some sort of Moment Of Truth, when they realized that what they had done was wrong, and paid some sort of penalty in order to start over again as one of the good guys.
Andrew, on the other hand, never really tried to atone for his crimes. He just seemed to decide one day that he would become good, probably because he sucked so badly at being evil without someone like Warren guiding and directing him.
Andrew, on the other hand, never really tried to atone for his crimes. He just seemed to decide one day that he would become good, probably because he sucked so badly at being evil without someone like Warren guiding and directing him.
As far as Xander and Anya are concerned, my theory around them is that, as far as Xander is concerned, Anya never did anything personally to him or any of his friends. It's all secondary and collateral damage, and he doesn't even know what happened in 'The Wish' anyway, so he's able to look past it all more.
Spike, Faith and Andrew were all, at one point, laser focused on hurting Buffy and her friends, which included Xander, so I think, for him, it's harder for him to see past that. Although, he seems to have gotten over it with Andrew, maybe because of Warren's 'punishment' since he was the ring leader.
As far as I'm concerned, out of everyone, Andrew is the only one who actually hasn't had some sort of redemption arc. His 'moment' in 'Storyteller' isn't really what I'd call redemption, he's just scared. Plus, he hasn't really actually moved on or grown up any, considering what he does to Buffy in S9. We're always all over Spike for the AR - and quite rightly - but Andrew literally stole Buffy's body without her consent and nothing has ever been said or done about it. To me, he needs to pay some sort of penance for that, or at least become aware that it was the wrong thing to do. As of right now, I don't believe that's happened.
Everyone but Andrew has shown some sort of remorse or guilt over what they'd done. They all pay for their crime in some way, even if they do get over it pretty quickly. Andrew never has, he just jumped onto Buffy's ship because he had nowhere else to go and the end of the world was pretty much nigh. He had nothing to protect him and he tied himself to Buffy's mast out of nothing more than desperation. I still find it hard to believe that Buffy trusted him enough to assign him a squad, never mind what actually happened to said squad.
Andrew might seem innocent, but, to me, he's actually one of the most dangerous people in the verse. The other Big Bads are monsters and we know it, Andrew is secretive and capable of horrible things. Maybe Buffy is keeping him on her side by keeping him sweet because she doesn't like to think about what he could do if he goes dark side again?
Spike, Faith and Andrew were all, at one point, laser focused on hurting Buffy and her friends, which included Xander, so I think, for him, it's harder for him to see past that. Although, he seems to have gotten over it with Andrew, maybe because of Warren's 'punishment' since he was the ring leader.
As far as I'm concerned, out of everyone, Andrew is the only one who actually hasn't had some sort of redemption arc. His 'moment' in 'Storyteller' isn't really what I'd call redemption, he's just scared. Plus, he hasn't really actually moved on or grown up any, considering what he does to Buffy in S9. We're always all over Spike for the AR - and quite rightly - but Andrew literally stole Buffy's body without her consent and nothing has ever been said or done about it. To me, he needs to pay some sort of penance for that, or at least become aware that it was the wrong thing to do. As of right now, I don't believe that's happened.
Everyone but Andrew has shown some sort of remorse or guilt over what they'd done. They all pay for their crime in some way, even if they do get over it pretty quickly. Andrew never has, he just jumped onto Buffy's ship because he had nowhere else to go and the end of the world was pretty much nigh. He had nothing to protect him and he tied himself to Buffy's mast out of nothing more than desperation. I still find it hard to believe that Buffy trusted him enough to assign him a squad, never mind what actually happened to said squad.
Andrew might seem innocent, but, to me, he's actually one of the most dangerous people in the verse. The other Big Bads are monsters and we know it, Andrew is secretive and capable of horrible things. Maybe Buffy is keeping him on her side by keeping him sweet because she doesn't like to think about what he could do if he goes dark side again?
I thought I'd share my gut reaction to reading this thread. I don't know if after more thought I really think this is true, but it seemed to me like it's Joss' high school social hierarchy again. Xander/Willow/Buffy were outcasts, but Andrew is someone even they can look down on and feel superior to. I think it's human nature that they wouldn't allow Andrew to become their equal, that deep down everyone wants to lord it over someone else. Just my 11 cents.
I
itssmiletime
Well said- it does make a lot of sense and the power dynamics are prevalent in S7.
Are they projecting a superiority complex towards someone who sacrificially murdered his only living friend Jonathan without serious coercion or provocation?
Wow, you know, I think you're onto something there, the scooby gang were such monster jocks! 🙄 😛
EVIL UU
Scooby
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Because Faith, Spike, Willow and Anya didn't murder their best friends and the reasoning behind their murders was comprehensible. Spike murdered because he was a soulless vampire, Anya murdered because she was a vengeance demon, Faith murdered for money and Willow murdered to serve justice.
@The Dark Avenger
What's wrong with that? Unless you're one of those sick little bitches with a murder fetish that marry serial killers, I don't see a problem. Xander fell in love with and had sex with a girl, not a vengeance demon.
@The Dark Avenger
What's wrong with that? Unless you're one of those sick little bitches with a murder fetish that marry serial killers, I don't see a problem. Xander fell in love with and had sex with a girl, not a vengeance demon.
Zeppelin92
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If anything I think Anya was never fully forgiven by Buffy. But she also reversed the murder of those boys she killed in the end. Buffy only let Anya stay around for Xander's sake. Spike as we all know was forgiven because he went and got his soul. Willow and Buffy have a close relationship so obviously it was tough for Buffy to not forgive her friend based on a one time mistake.
All of these people had circumstances surrounding why they were forgiven/redeemable.
---------- Post added at 03:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:05 AM ----------
I agree that Andrew wanted to get into Buffy's good graces for the protection out of it. He did show remorse for murdering Jonathan though. It was the episode that Buffy takes him to the school basement to close the Seal. He actually has to cry, part of that had to do that Buffy was threatening him sure, but Jonathan was his only friend and I'm sure he felt remorse for doing what he did.
All of these people had circumstances surrounding why they were forgiven/redeemable.
---------- Post added at 03:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:05 AM ----------
I agree that Andrew wanted to get into Buffy's good graces for the protection out of it. He did show remorse for murdering Jonathan though. It was the episode that Buffy takes him to the school basement to close the Seal. He actually has to cry, part of that had to do that Buffy was threatening him sure, but Jonathan was his only friend and I'm sure he felt remorse for doing what he did.