Why did Angel's crew have a healthier friendship than the Scooby Gang?

[Joshua]

I was wondering, throughout the course of BTVS, the Scooby Gang (mainly; Buffy, Giles, WIllow, and Xander) have had arguments (ie: Season 4 finale, Season 7 etc.), but they've never seem to have forgiven each other for the arguments they always just act nice to each other few episodes later.

But in Angel's crew, they have a feud or a dissagreement but they realize that they're stronger together and have resolved their issues with each other.

Sorry if this doesn't sound all together right. Is it because Angel Investigations are adults and became best friends as adults? While the Scooby gang became best friends as teenagers in high school?

 

[Kean]

I think there are lots of reasons for this but I think the Scoobies coming together as teenagers and the AI Team coming together as adults has a huge part to play in it.

The dynamic of the Scoobies remains very highschool, even years after they left. I feel like when it comes to each other, they haven't matured emotionally very much. And a huge part of that is that they haven't gone on to form new relationships. Much like highschool the Scoobies are clannish, unwelcoming to newcomers, very harsh on each other and unwilling to move beyond the things that have happened in the past.

Where as when I think of the AI Team I think of second chances and a group of people who are more concerned with who you are and who you are trying to be than they are with who you were. Look at how the Scoobies treat Faith and Spike and compare it to how the AI Team treat them. They found places in L.A. that Sunnydale would just not give them; because they weren't there at the start.

 

[Kana]

Well I think that Angel Investigations were actually colleagues as well as friends, so there was a stronger organizational unit that kept them together aside from their personal relationships.

I also think you're right about the Scoobies becoming friends when they were teenagers. Adolescence and early adulthood is a hugely transitional time for most people and Giles in his middle ages, after being fired and realizing that most of life he was hanging out with teenagers must be a sobering self image to behold.

Also on the televised series they were all embarking on different vocational paths which can sometimes lead to fractures within a social group.

AI had their jobs, their mission and their friendship in common. They were all following a similar path.

 

[EVIL UU]

It's because Buffy, Willow and Xander actually love each other. They are kin, a tribe, a family. They care too much, that's why things get messy.

 

[Kean]

It's because Buffy, Willow and Xander actually love each other. They are kin, a tribe, a family. They care too much, that's why things get messy.

Implying that the AI Team don't love each other?

 

[TiMER]

I believe the AI team had a stronger bond, which is funny considering they had bigger falling outs than the scoobies did. For example:

Season 2: Angel fires the AI gang which creates a rocky period of dislike among the team towards Angel.
Season 3: Everybody turns their back on Wesley for stealing Connor and Angel tries to kill Wesley.
Season 4: Evil Cordy. Enough said.
Season 5: Wesley stabs Gunn for essentially being responsible for Fred's death.

Essentially just about all of the AI team members had tried to kill somebody at AI at one time or another, and yet they seem to have a stronger bond than the scoobies.

 

[sosa lola]

Look at how the Scoobies treat Faith and Spike and compare it to how the AI Team treat them. They found places in L.A. that Sunnydale would just not give them; because they weren't there at the start.

There's a very good reason to why the Scoobies took a longer time accepting Faith and Spike. Faith and Spike had hurt them. The LA group don't really know Faith and Spike in their evil days the way the Scoobies do. Angel for example, took a harder time accepting Spike just like the Scoobies.

For example if a reformed Lilah went to Sunnydale and helped the Scoobies, they will be willing to accept her better than the LA group.

---------- Post added at 07:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:43 AM ----------

Implying that the AI Team don't love each other?

I think what he was trying to say was that the Scoobies were more like family. Sometimes you're not close to your families and you don't share the same interests but in the end it's your family whom you spend Christmas and Thanksgiving with and so on. The Scoobies do have that dynamic.

 

[Kean]

There's a very good reason to why the Scoobies took a longer time accepting Faith and Spike. Faith and Spike had hurt them. The LA group don't really know Faith and Spike in their evil days the way the Scoobies do. Angel for example, took a harder time accepting Spike just like the Scoobies.

I completely understand where you are coming from but Faith and Spike had hurt the AI Team too. Apart from Buffy I can't think of anyone hurt more by Faith than Wesley.

From where I'm sitting, it just feels like the AI Team are more likely to give you a shot than the Scoobies.

For example if a reformed Lilah went to Sunnydale and helped the Scoobies, they will be willing to accept her better than the LA group.

I really don't know if they would, but I take on her your point.

I think what he was trying to say was that the Scoobies were more like family. Sometimes you're not close to your families and you don't share the same interests but in the end it's your family whom you spend Christmas and Thanksgiving with and so on. The Scoobies do have that dynamic.

They absolutely do, but I don't believe that the AI Team don't.

 

[Robb Stark]

I think [MENTION=7585]Kean[/MENTION] hit the nail largely on the head with the assertion that the Scoobies are very clannish. They never really progress past that stereotypical "high school" mindset that Joss says he despises so much. I think that the Scoobies are genuinely good people, but they aren't very mature people. All of them, except maybe Giles, have extremely limited emotional capacity. They're all kinda selfish and they all have trouble forgiving and moving on, even when the situation blatantly calls for it.

The Angel crew isn't like that. They all have their own unique role in the group and they all seem to not only care about each other, but care for each other as well. They're older when they come together and unlike Buffy, Angel has a real ability to hold the group together. More than that, he can put it back together after it's fallen apart. As the years go on, the AI team only grows stronger and closer together. That's because of Angel, because they're mature enough to accept each other's faults and flaws, and because they all genuinely share and believe in the mission they've embarked on.

Plus, as others have said, Angel's team accepts outsiders, whereas Buffy's struggles to. Contrast the reactions of both groups after the respective Angelus sagas. Or when Spike returns to Buffy in S7 with how he comes back in AtS S5. Even after everything Faith has put Angel and Wesley through, they welcome her openly. Look at how hard they try with Connor, or how long Angel sticks by Kate Lockley, even when she hates him. When Angel says he believes in Darla, even though they object to it, the rest of AI falls in with him. Can the Scoobies say that, about anyone? It would have been very easy for Angel and Cordy to overlook people like Wesley, Gunn, Gwen, Darla and even Conor, to write them off, but he doesn't.

 

[Blaze]

I don't like comparing the Scoobies and AI very much. People tend to defend AI while trashing the Scoobies for the type of relationship they had. But in my opinion, I don't think we can say that AI had a healthier relationship compared to the Scoobies.

I'll agree that they seem more mature, and they seem to hold better as a group, but Angel still tried to kill Wes, and Wes still stabbed Gunn, and Angel still abandoned Cordy and Wes. Sure they got past that but they weren't always very "healthy".

I just like to consider both groups as two completely different dynamics. I consider neither better or worst than the other. I don't know if it's just me, but I don't really see the point made that the Scoobies don't work on forgiving each other. To me at the point they are, they work like a family, and having to say they forgive the person is just pointless, they fight, they disagree, they get over it and move one. I don't really see them keeping grudges, like other have stated.

Keep in mind I still agree with a lot of other stuff said in the thread, I do enjoy Angel's team's dynamic better most times, but I don't think it's fair to say that it's healthier.

 

[Robb Stark]

I'll agree that they seem more mature, and they seem to hold better as a group, but Angel still tried to kill Wes, and Wes still stabbed Gunn, and Angel still abandoned Cordy and Wes. Sure they got past that but they weren't always very "healthy".

Both groups go through a ton of internal strife over the course of both series, but it always felt to me like each instance caused the Scoobies to further drift apart, while with AI they just became stronger.

 

[Zeppelin92]

AI team have a mutual respect for each other as adults. They are all working together toward a common goal with different reasoning's behind why they are doing it. Plus it seemed like AI team was saving the world by their own choice to do so, while Buffy was the Chosen One so it was her job and Willow, Xander and everyone just got roped into it.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I don't think either group had a 'healthier' dynamic-just different.

 

[iShower4free]

To me the main difference I see in the two groups is that the Scoobies had a lot more problems brought about by themselves. Angel Incs main problems seemed to be thrown on the like; Evil Cordy, Connor being taken leading to Angel and Wes problems, WR&H pushing Angel to go into revenge mode and leaving Angel Inc. Still, even with these things being thrown at them they forgave each other and moved on. Some of The Scoobies problems just seemed more petty than that. A lot of bitterness, envy, jealousy, and we cant forget the biggest issue, Hormones lol.

 

[Taake]

First thing that popped into my mind when I read the thread title was - they were older when they met. Short and simple. That makes sense to me.

 

[Bluebird]

First thing that popped into my mind when I read the thread title was - they were older when they met. Short and simple. That makes sense to me.

This is how I see it too. The Angel characters were already adults when they met. Sure, Cordelia was still meant to be, what, 18 in the first season? (hah!) but she had been through a lot living in Sunnydale, matured a bit, and enough that her development meant she wanted to help people through her visions. I know that was also to do with the very fact she had been passed the visions - making her realise how much pain there was in the world, but I believe she had already started changing for the better before that.

I love season 1 Cordy. She still sometimes acts in her old ways, trying to date the same kind of guys she did in high school, rejecting Doyle for a while, and being her shallow self. But I always got the impression it was her trying to match her old life with her new life, having the maturity to see she isn't that girl anymore, though still clinging to her past in a nostalgic way with her little statuettes and singed diploma.

Sorry, totally turned into a Cordy post haha

 

[white avenger]

Angel's crew consisted of a group of adults who joined together to accomplish their mission. That's not saying that they didn't like each other, because they obviously did, but, primarily, they were a group of professionals working together to accomplish a common mission.

The Scoobies were a group of high school buddies who pretty much patrolled the Hellmouth with the Slayer the same way that some people form paint ball teams. More dangerous, certainly, but still basically just an exciting game.

 

[Wesley Pryce]

Angel was always about extending to others what he sought himself..Forgiveness,a second chance,atonement,redemption,etc. Likewise, i think the rest of team Angel was of the same mindset because of the compassion that Angel had shown them,and i also totally agree with them being older and far more mature in playing a factor in their healthier relationships.