Why did Buffy disrespect Spike so much in S5?

Also, something that Buffy must have been basing her feelings on, either consciously or unconsciously, was that the only close lasting association that she had ever had with a vampire was with Angel, and without his soul, he, as Angelus, was probably the most cruel, diabolical monster she had ever encountered. If for no other reason, her experience with Angelus would have to affect her judgment. Even after Spike began to be helpful and somewhat predictable, if not yet dependable, I think that it took the genuine friendship that formed between Spike and the other two Summers women to begin to crumble the walls of Buffy's distrust. After that, Spike's natural courage, loyalty, and charm won her over.
 
Librarian Giles said:
He was helping her out a lot of the time, but he never seemed to get credit for any of it. Yes, he was seeking credit and just wanted Buffy to like him, but the guy still has no soul, so it is a big thing for him to do any of this. For example in that episode with that troll dude, remember when he took out the second level of the Bronze and several people fell? Spike was tending to some of the people, not just to be nice, but to get Buffy's attention, i don't think she knew that though. So then she asks him rudely "what are doing?" Spike is basically harmless, so i don't know why she loathes him so much.


Just look at it this way, Spike has no soul, but he is helping out Buffy from time to time. It's a big achievement on his part to do this, and espcially more near the end of the season when it comes to Glory torturing him. Yet, he still gets no credit and gets pissed on from time to time from mostly Xander or Buffy. At least treat the guy with respect and thank him from time to time, you don't need to praise the guy and make him your best friend.
Click to expand...

Well, I think on some level, Buffy believes that only humans or vamps with souls deserve respect. She never treated Harmony very well, or any other demons she was in contact with. This is why she never respected Spike until he got his soul.

Think about hatred for a second. Some people would argue that Buffy hated Spike at this time. Hatred is a strong emotion and don't they always say that anger is a cover-up for something else? I believe even at this point, Buffy was struggling with her feelings she had for Spike (even though she wouldn't admit them). Why doesn't she just stake him? Think about it. And besides, Buffy does realize the extent of his love for her and Dawn after how he behaves with Glory. This is the first time, I believe, he does something unselfish for Buffy, because he loves her and Dawn. He didn't need to protect Dawn. A "real" vampires first instinct is self-preservation. He was willing to let Glory kill him before he'd reveal who the key was. Buffy tells him she'll never forget what he did for her and Dawn, and I believe her. After that, she treats him differently. She realizes there is some humanity in him. At this point, I think Buffy was still operating on the idea that "all vamps are bad" theory.
 
white avenger
white avenger
While I agree, Harm's not the best example in the world. Nobody ever respected Harmony, human or vamp.
Airam
Airam
great post :)
Think about it. As of this moment she is not thinking of him in a romantic viewpoint. He has previously tried to kill her, her boyfriend, and her friends. If someone did that to you, I highly doubt that you would respect them, even if they had helped you a bit. Respect has to be something that is earned, and I think he would eventually gain that from her.
 
Everyone was completely right to be concerned anyway. Joyce was spot on, "he could become dangerous." He became just that in that very episode when he chained Buffy up and threatened to kill her if she didn't admit feelings for him. Of course the Scoobies are going to hate him for that! He was creeping into her house and stealing her underwear and sniffing her clothes, he built a shrine of her and stood outside her house all night. In the real world you'd call the police and most certainly get a restraining order.
 
R
Revolver
But you wouldn't be disrespectful!
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Wow. Cool banner!!!!
Because he got what he asked for. Remember what happened at end of S4? Divide and conquer and send Buffy alone to Adam? Oh, and he almost got Riley dead by kidnapping the doctor so he could instead of saving Riley remove chip. Now what happened after he thought chip was removed? He tried to kill her! Also the shrine as was mentioned. Spike should be really happy he was not dusted after all that. Oh, and all that did not even include Buffybot. You do not try to kill someone and then expect to be treated fairly.

Speaking of Giles -- he was rather fair towards Spike I thought. Treated him fairly with cash vs cash at each other predicaments. Spike ruined his own chances however with how she treated Buffy when Drusilla came to town. I would say most of you are far more biased towards Spike than he was against him.
 
B
Blair Waldorf-Bass
Great post hun!
Atren said:
Because he got what he asked for. Remember what happened at end of S4? Divide and conquer and send Buffy alone to Adam? Oh, and he almost got Riley dead by kidnapping the doctor so he could instead of saving Riley remove chip. Now what happened after he thought chip was removed? He tried to kill her! Also the shrine as was mentioned. Spike should be really happy he was not dusted after all that. Oh, and all that did not even include Buffybot. You do not try to kill someone and then expect to be treated fairly.

Speaking of Giles -- he was rather fair towards Spike I thought. Treated him fairly with cash vs cash at each other predicaments. Spike ruined his own chances however with how she treated Buffy when Drusilla came to town. I would say most of you are far more biased towards Spike than he was against him.
Click to expand...
I probobly am biased against Spike, this is true. I can't help him. I love my wittle Spikey 😉 But believe me, I'm the first person to praise and the first person to critisize him. Spike has done some pretty deplorable things in his time, for sure. After all though, Spike is Loves Bitch - of course he's revert back to his bad old self when his old love came back to town. Not saying it was right, just sayin' it was expected.
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer said:
Well, I think on some level, Buffy believes that only humans or vamps with souls deserve respect. She never treated Harmony very well, or any other demons she was in contact with. This is why she never respected Spike until he got his soul.

Think about hatred for a second. Some people would argue that Buffy hated Spike at this time. Hatred is a strong emotion and don't they always say that anger is a cover-up for something else? I believe even at this point, Buffy was struggling with her feelings she had for Spike (even though she wouldn't admit them). Why doesn't she just stake him? Think about it. And besides, Buffy does realize the extent of his love for her and Dawn after how he behaves with Glory. This is the first time, I believe, he does something unselfish for Buffy, because he loves her and Dawn. He didn't need to protect Dawn. A "real" vampires first instinct is self-preservation. He was willing to let Glory kill him before he'd reveal who the key was. Buffy tells him she'll never forget what he did for her and Dawn, and I believe her. After that, she treats him differently. She realizes there is some humanity in him. At this point, I think Buffy was still operating on the idea that "all vamps are bad" theory.
Click to expand...

I completely agree. I don't know if she was beginning romantic feelings yet, though she probably realized he was a hottie :heee:. However I think she was beginning to gain respect for him but it took time and some inner fighting with herself because he is evil and has proven, even when working with them, that he's not always that good (trying to kill her when he thought the chip was removed). Though after the kiss at the end of intervention all bets were off because she really realized how much he cared about her and Dawn and what he would do for them.
 
It's kind of hard to trust a vampire who tried to kill not only you, But your friends and your mother! So I don't blame her for disrespecting him. Not to mention the fact that Spike having a crush on Buffy is as suprising to us as it is to her. It's so out of the blue. At first Spike's love for Buffy isn't really "love" it's obsession. Hense the doll Warren made him, the mannequin, and the photographs of her in his crypt. I don't know about you, But I wouldn't be too keen on trusting a vampire who has an infatuation with me especially if I was the slayer!
 
I think she disrespected him so much was because she couldn't trust him...and how could she. Spike to her at this point was only helping because he couldn't really be fighting against her, he had the chip. Buffy was blissfully unware of Spikes true feelings towards her, she believed that a creature with out a soul was unable to truely love anything/anyone.

BUT there are times in season 5 when Buffy totally 100% respects him..sort of 😛, like on his return from being captured by Glory, Buffy pretends to be the Buffy bot...and she realises how much Spike has done for her, and she even partially over looks the rather disturbing Buffy bot...She must of respected some of his actions..he did alot of amazing things for her and with out his soul!!
 
I think that her true feelings about Spike come back through in the finale when she invites him back into her house. She realizes that he loves her and would do anything to keep her from pain. While she hated him when he was trying to kill her, she developed a respect for him by the end of season 5.
 
I think on a certain level Buffy did trust Spike. Spike was the first person she told that her mom may be dying at the end of "Fool for Love". Thats a big deal. If you don't trust someone at all you would never tell them a thing like that. She kept her distance from Spike knowing that he could get that chip out of his head, which he does try to do.

Also remember that at this point Spike is still trying to deny the fact that he is love with her at least in the beginning. Spike at times makes it clear that he doesn't want to be a part of the scoobies, so I think the rest of don't think he deserves respect.
 
I think it all comes down to this: No matter what nice un-paid-for things Spike did to help her in Season 5, he was always a murderer to her.

When you've seen death, lost people, and have your life changed forever because you found out you're the chosen one, destined to kill evil vampires, a few "nice" deeds from a vampire who tried to kill you a few months ago isn't going to change your view on him. And it gives you an excuse to ask him for a favor and later punch him in the nose.

By the end on season 5, she starts to see him in a different light, but no one should blame Buffy for being disrespectful in the beginning. For all she knew he was just trying to win their sympathy, like in season 4 with Adam, so he could kill them all.

And later on in season 5 & 6, she still saw him as a murder, but she must have realized that because he loved her, he could be nice. But, that's she was messed up by her messy life made her mean, and she took it out on Spike, a murderer.

Bottom line, I think he had it coming, and apparently a part of Buffy did too(even tough she didn't always like how mean she acted around Spike).

Torture and murder for a century, and you deserve to get used and abused by a messed up girl with superpowers.

It's not that I don't feel for Spike when he gets hurt by Buffy, I'm not a monster, but I feel I have the right to laugh a little when he gets a unnecassary punch in the nose.
 
^ These are all very good points...but what about Angel? Angel had murdered long before Spike ever was born, and she got to see him like that at one point. I knwo he had a soul and it would make him regretting it, but still shoudn't she feel the same way towards him as she did with Spike then? In the end they are both vampires. If it wasn't for his curse, Angel would still be evil, maybe the worst enemy Buffy ever would face.


I think Buffy acted how she did in season 5 out of confusion. A vampire you fought to kill suddenly helps you along great evil. He also confesses that he loves you just to screw your world up a bit more. How will you react? Punch him, kick him. You know you can do it, and it will hurt him. Season 5 was to me the beginning of a crumbling Buffy who lost all meaning with her life. So the easy way would be to take it out on Spike.
 
Spike's actions were always motivated by obsession. We like him because he's British and rebellious and says funny things, but it's evident that even his quixotic actions such as taking Glory's onslaught was simply an attempt to curry favour as part of his obsession with Buffy. The moments where Spike transcended the malice that comes lumped with soullessness complicate matters, but honestly I think that at some points even the writers were struggling to decide exactly what a soul and the lack of a soul entailed behaviourally.
 
It was very different with Angel. She got to know him when he was good and she feel in love with him. The first encounters she had with Spike, he tried to kill her.

And in season 3, we can actually see Buffy be a little harsh to Angel at times "I'm with Scott, because I can reliy on him, so ha!" but she was in love with Angel when she got to see his bad side.

To sum up, Angel was good and nice and when he lost his soul, she still love him, and then he got the soul back. Spike was a murderer who'd hurt Buffy and her friends, who later on became good and... kinda nice(even in season 7 he acted like a bitca).

Buffy had different experiences with both vampires, so of course she's going to act differently around them. Although, in season 1-3, she didn't have such a messed up life. In case she'd meet Spike earlier in her life, she might have acted nicer towards, because she wouldn't have as much rage inside, but he might have screwed her up even more than he did in season 6 if he meet her earlier, before she got harder and could deal with people like him.

Can you imagine Spike stalking the innocent Buffy from season 1? I'm not sure she would have the strength not to crack under the pressure("crack" as in becoming his loveslave and killing herself out of shame).
 
Skytteflickan88 said:
Can you imagine Spike stalking the innocent Buffy from season 1? I'm not sure she would have the strength not to crack under the pressure("crack" as in becoming his loveslave and killing herself out of shame).
Click to expand...

I'd argue that Spike was Buffy's love slave - not the over way around. She was the one who physically came onto him first , exploiting his love for her and using him for his body - she even admits it. And Buffy doesn't "kill" herself out of shame - it's more a self-hatred kind of a thing, the idea that she was attracted to a souless thing such as Spike disgusted her. And I don't believe Spike's theory that she didn't tell her friends about him because she was ashamed - I think she didn't tell them because then she would have to had admitted there was something going on, that she was attracted to him, and most importantly admit that she had moved on - from Angel. Her plea to Tara in Dead Things, to me, isn't about embarassment or shame, it's her battling with her own emotions about her feelings for him, her self-loathing. When Xander and Anya (in Entropy) find out about her and Spike, she seems almost relieved, and not at all embarrassed. What kills her is not the fact that Xander knows, it's that she lied to him about it. His reaction to her ("You let that thing touch you") doesn't appear to offend her, she accepts it, knowing its the truth. Yet there is an acceptance of it. The only reason she leaves Spike is because she feels bad about using him, not because she's embarrassed she's with him.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom