The Willsta
Townie
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2004
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- 19
Why did faith help buffy in graduation day?
- Thread starter The Willsta
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F
Fat Elvis 007
Guest
I think that it really was Fath's mind connecting to Buffy's. Deep down in her subconsious, I think Faith really did want to be a good person. This was just a hint that she was redeemable.
Willow Rosenberg
I might be just like you!
Despite all the things Faith had done, she was still a person with a soul. She was capable of good as we see in later seasons. I think in a way she used the mayor as a paternal figure, but in essence didn't want the world to end. I would have liked to see what role she would have played in Graduation Day if she wasn't comatose.
4
4.O.cious Miss
Guest
Re:
I think it was definately Faith. Faith was always trying to put up a front like she never cared about Buffy or the scoobie gang. But that front was so fake. It was so obvious that Faith did all the things she did for attention and affection. She was in dire need of affection, and the Mayor could give it to her. He could be the father she never had in a sense. But Faith cared about Buffy deep down, she just hated herself too much to show it. The self- loathing side of her eventually came out in "Who Are You." And I think she helped Buffy to try to reconcile all the differences they had in the real world. She knew Buffy was only fighting for what she thought was right. :chinaman:
The Willsta said:
I think it was definately Faith. Faith was always trying to put up a front like she never cared about Buffy or the scoobie gang. But that front was so fake. It was so obvious that Faith did all the things she did for attention and affection. She was in dire need of affection, and the Mayor could give it to her. He could be the father she never had in a sense. But Faith cared about Buffy deep down, she just hated herself too much to show it. The self- loathing side of her eventually came out in "Who Are You." And I think she helped Buffy to try to reconcile all the differences they had in the real world. She knew Buffy was only fighting for what she thought was right. :chinaman:
I think it was just another of Buffy's prophetic dreams. Her dreams were showing her what she needed to do and Buffy's own subconscious had Faith as her guide. The dream showed Buffy things that Faith couldn't have possibly know. Like the comment 'Counting down from 7-3-0.' That was a prediction of Buffy's death and Faith played no part in that. If Faith had received prophetic dreams they would probably been centered around herself...just like Buffy's dreams. This dream that they 'share' isn't helping Faith in anyway.
In Season 4, there is a dream were Faith and Buffy are making a bed. Its never specified who actually dreams that...it just cuts to Faith after the dream and her eyes start to move. I also think this is one of Buffy's dreams and not Faith's because Buffy has a continuation of this dream at the end of Season four.
In Season 4, there is a dream were Faith and Buffy are making a bed. Its never specified who actually dreams that...it just cuts to Faith after the dream and her eyes start to move. I also think this is one of Buffy's dreams and not Faith's because Buffy has a continuation of this dream at the end of Season four.
M
Mulder22
Good Points
E
eset
Guest
I agree with Jules. Though it would be possible for Faith to share a dream with Buffy, since they are both slayers, I think that the fact that Faith is not at all repentant in "This Year's Girl", and has no knowledge of Buffy's victory at Graduation, shows that it couldn't have been her in the dream.
Unless it was only part of her, like her slayer-essence or something...
It's more likely, though, that Dream Faith was like the First Slayer in "Restless" a means for the knowledge she needed to manifest itself.
Unless it was only part of her, like her slayer-essence or something...
It's more likely, though, that Dream Faith was like the First Slayer in "Restless" a means for the knowledge she needed to manifest itself.
Jill_Valentine
Sacred and Profane
As far as I'm concerned, it's Buffy's version of Faith. Faith is probably already trapped in her own dreams.
About the "Not gonna. It's yours" line, Joss said:
"Its not really a transfer of Slayer-Powers, more just, emotionally, I wanted to take Buffy and Faith to a place... where their relationship could have been rather than just play them as arch enemies. There was a great deal of love between them and that would manifest itself when Faith was no longer in a position to be attacking" "
I was thinking about that line some more, and it still didn't gel for me properly. It felt like a bigger deal than most interpretations would suggest. Whether it was interpreted as Faith forgiving Buffy, Buffy's own stressed out head trying to make a plan or Faith's last desperate attempt to protect her friend.. it just didn't work out without a remainder.. Then a few weeks ago, from the most unexpected of sources, I found my favourite interpretation so far. televisionwithoutpity, which is funny but, as the name suggests, utterly merciless in its snarkiness, reckon the dream sequence is one of their favourite scenes ever. Remember, these are people who found stuff to sneer at in The Body, but in a moment of dead seriousness, they said this about the dream:
"It's said that everyone in your dreams is actually you, and in light of the dialogue between Faith and Buffy throughout the third season about how Faith is the embodiment of a certain darkness in Buffy herself, I think that's what the viewer is meant to take from it. It's clear also that Faith's baggage is just that, and that Buffy's going to have to 'carry' it now, because trying to kill Faith is very"¦well, Faith, and all that that implies. It's also said that, in dreams, apartments signal you to avoid rivals, and that where windows symbolize opportunity, a broken window symbolizes an opportunity lost. So, there's all that stuff. But it's also possible that, much like in 'Restless' and in real dreams, we've got a number of red herrings here that don't mean much of anything." -- Sars
So, put simply, they reckon this scene is Buffy's way of acknowledging her responsibilty to Faith. In her lust for revenge rather than justice, Buffy has let the Faith Within loose now and can't go back. So she takes on all the guilt and pain Faith's been dragging around for so long because she's comatose and can't do it herself anymore. I'd like to think so...It would make Buffy far more sympathetic to me. No wonder she treats Post-Coma Faith as she does: For nearly a year she's been dealing with her own guilt burdens along with Faith's... It also leads me to believe that the whole scene is indeed in Buffy's head only, and that might explain why DreamFaith acts and dresses so oddly, even for a dream... But even if it was Faith, and she had forgiven Buffy, bear in mind that between that point and her re-emergence in This Years Girl, she's spent 8 months (God knows how long in her dreams) seeing Buffy kill her and the Mayor endlessly. Her lines during the picnic dream suggest it isn't the first time she's seen that particular dream either...
About the "Not gonna. It's yours" line, Joss said:
"Its not really a transfer of Slayer-Powers, more just, emotionally, I wanted to take Buffy and Faith to a place... where their relationship could have been rather than just play them as arch enemies. There was a great deal of love between them and that would manifest itself when Faith was no longer in a position to be attacking" "
I was thinking about that line some more, and it still didn't gel for me properly. It felt like a bigger deal than most interpretations would suggest. Whether it was interpreted as Faith forgiving Buffy, Buffy's own stressed out head trying to make a plan or Faith's last desperate attempt to protect her friend.. it just didn't work out without a remainder.. Then a few weeks ago, from the most unexpected of sources, I found my favourite interpretation so far. televisionwithoutpity, which is funny but, as the name suggests, utterly merciless in its snarkiness, reckon the dream sequence is one of their favourite scenes ever. Remember, these are people who found stuff to sneer at in The Body, but in a moment of dead seriousness, they said this about the dream:
"It's said that everyone in your dreams is actually you, and in light of the dialogue between Faith and Buffy throughout the third season about how Faith is the embodiment of a certain darkness in Buffy herself, I think that's what the viewer is meant to take from it. It's clear also that Faith's baggage is just that, and that Buffy's going to have to 'carry' it now, because trying to kill Faith is very"¦well, Faith, and all that that implies. It's also said that, in dreams, apartments signal you to avoid rivals, and that where windows symbolize opportunity, a broken window symbolizes an opportunity lost. So, there's all that stuff. But it's also possible that, much like in 'Restless' and in real dreams, we've got a number of red herrings here that don't mean much of anything." -- Sars
So, put simply, they reckon this scene is Buffy's way of acknowledging her responsibilty to Faith. In her lust for revenge rather than justice, Buffy has let the Faith Within loose now and can't go back. So she takes on all the guilt and pain Faith's been dragging around for so long because she's comatose and can't do it herself anymore. I'd like to think so...It would make Buffy far more sympathetic to me. No wonder she treats Post-Coma Faith as she does: For nearly a year she's been dealing with her own guilt burdens along with Faith's... It also leads me to believe that the whole scene is indeed in Buffy's head only, and that might explain why DreamFaith acts and dresses so oddly, even for a dream... But even if it was Faith, and she had forgiven Buffy, bear in mind that between that point and her re-emergence in This Years Girl, she's spent 8 months (God knows how long in her dreams) seeing Buffy kill her and the Mayor endlessly. Her lines during the picnic dream suggest it isn't the first time she's seen that particular dream either...
i believe this dream was faith's first attempt at redemption. she was never meant to be bad, she was troubled. inside, while maybe deep, there has always been good in her and that dream prophesized that the good would eventually overcome the bad.
Yeah, i've always considered that to have been the real Faith in the dream too. Just because she didn't say anything about helping Buffy when she woke up again in This Year's Girl doesn't mean she actually didn't. She may not want to admit to it or alernatively she actually could just not remember, it happened months ago in a dream state, she could very easily not recall it ever happening.
I think given the fact we saw Buffy and Angel share a dream in Amends that it is more than possible that two slayers could do the same thing.
I think given the fact we saw Buffy and Angel share a dream in Amends that it is more than possible that two slayers could do the same thing.