Why did it Fail?

[The Ferg]

I'm not asking why the show got cancelled by Fox. I'm asking what reasons led to people not watching it. What about it did people/Fox not like?

Personally, I absolutely love Dollhouse, but I do have a hunch why the casual viewer, and even Whedonites, didn't watch it. Two reason:
1. The lack of humor. Sure, you had Topher and the occasional one-liners but, upon re-watches, there's a distinct humorous edge missing. This "edge" so to speak is a mainstay amongst Whedon media, whether it's TV shows, movies, or hell even comics. In Buffy, Angel, and Firefly I find myself laughing out loud in many episodes. Even serious episodes like A Hole in the World, Out of Gas, and CwDP there's always something funny happening.
2. The lack of flat-out amazing episodes. In Joss's other shows you can pick out at least one epy from each season that is just fantastic: Hush, The Body, OMWF, A Hole in the World, and Objects in Space for example. Dollhouse doesn't have a single episode that truly stands above the pack. At least, imo.

So, if anyone feels like replying, have at it! 😉

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Personally, I think the main reasons why the casual viewer didn't get hooked on DH was because of it's incredibly dark subject matter. Right now, audiences are looking for escapism, not twisted and perverse programming.

Don't get me wrong; I love Dollhouse, of course. As fans of Joss, we love it, but the general public? They just didn't...get it, I guess. It never caught on. This is a great shame, because by the time Season 2 was well into it's plot, the show had become pretty fantastic, in my opinion.

Also, Echo the main character, was pretty boring. That was a bad choice.

 

[dan k]

I tried watching Dollhouse but after a few episodes i just got bored with the plot. I didn't become attached to the characters like i did with Buffy, it wasn't easy to watch like Buffy either. The plot was hard to follow and i could see how people could become easily confused because i myself did.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I tried watching Dollhouse but after a few episodes i just got bored with the plot. I didn't become attached to the characters like i did with Buffy, it wasn't easy to watch like Buffy either. The plot was hard to follow and i could see how people could become easily confused because i myself did.

Exactly. It took me a long time to warm up to DH, too. By the time I had gotten really invested in the characters, the show was canceled, lol.

 

[Thursday]

When I first heard about Dollhouse I was super psyched at the idea of a smart, American sci-fi show that didn't revolve around living on a spaceship. Not that I don't like spaceship shows, but there are just so many.
Although DH's main idea sounded really cool the early episodes had cheesy plots (and not good cheesy like Buffy S1) and bad dialogue.

Although since people talk about how good S2 was, I wish I would've followed the show.

 

[TheVoid68]

I think that having the main character literally change personalities every episode was a big problem. It was almost impossible to get attached to her. The dialogue wasn't as snappy and engaging as in Joss' other shows, I agree that there was a serious lack of humour. And the plot was rather convulted, I've nothing against a complex plot, but a good plot should be complex, but not confusing. I felt like I didn't know any of the characters and I didn't really know what was going on. Combined with the unengaging, occasionally dull dialogue, you've got a show that you don't really want to carry on with.

 

[TheGrandmaster]

I would largely agree with what TheVoid68 says above. The show was so unengaging I personally didn't have the heart to struggle through season 1. I don't have a lot of time to spend watching TV, so I wanted to watch something that would entertain me immediately, rather than waiting 5 or 6 episodes for a plot to develop. The first 6 episodes of season 1 feel like 6 consecutive pilot episodes :/

 

[Taake]

The first 6 episodes of season 1 feel like 6 consecutive pilot episodes :/

I agree. It's sad though because I think that's what the network requested, it wasn't Joss' intention.

Personally I absolutely adore Dollhouse. Now the first episodes didn't hook me but somewhere around eppy 5 I grew mad about it 🙂

However as stated it is a rather dark subject matter and Echo is a bit of a dud as a character. Definitely not my favorite by far :S
I am surprised that it failed though because I thought the other characters were some of the best Joss has created.

I suppose people just didn't get into it quickly enough and in response they axed it too soon. I think I could have grown strong though, with time.

 

[MinwaraYana]

To add what you guys already said, I think the first season isn't so good so some people got bored. Season 2 is great, but who would watch it if they didn't watch S1? Plus, it's Friday night timeslot. :cry:

 

[Vengeance]

I watched S1 and the first few in S2 before I gave it up. My 2 big reasons are the lack of humor like you said, and I just didn't like any of the characters.

 

[Washburne]

I'm not asking why the show got cancelled by Fox. I'm asking what reasons led to people not watching it. What about it did people/Fox not like?

Isn't that more or less the same thing? What FOX didn't like was the ratings and the bad ratings came from viewers not liking the show. You can find a few reasons to why in this discussion.
Round 1: Vahla Ha'Nesh vs Drogyn I don't feel like copy and paste the "best" from it. Deal with it. 😉

2. The lack of flat-out amazing episodes. In Joss's other shows you can pick out at least one epy from each season that is just fantastic: Hush, The Body, OMWF, A Hole in the World, and Objects in Space for example. Dollhouse doesn't have a single episode that truly stands above the pack. At least, imo.

To make a good argument you should mention episodes from the first season of both Buffy and Angel. I totally agree with the humour aspect.

I think that having the main character literally change personalities every episode was a big problem. It was almost impossible to get attached to her.

Did you watch the whole show? There's no doubt that it's true in the first season but things changed. At which time people had already given up on the show so it was too late. I wonder how the first season had been if Joss had been able to make it the way he wanted. No guarantee that it had been better but it would be fun to compare it with how it finally was made.

 

[Flannen]

I don't think that THE reason for its failure exists as it's entirely subjective. Most of the reasons other people have said caused it do not wash with me because I disagree with them.

I loved Echo and thought she was an awesome character. I was instantly invested in her and even in the 'not so good' episodes (the only one of which I think is Stage Fright) the they are crucial in progressing her development.

I would say that it definitely does have stand out episodes like Whedon's other shows, Epitaph 1 & 2, for example and not to mention The Attic which is quite possibly my favourite episode of a Whedon show ever. It's so underrated and looked over in the place of the really overrated episodes like OMWF and Tabula Rasa which are really not special episodes in my opinion (see it's all subjective).

I have always said I find it to be Whedon's most mature writing and that a lot of it went over people's heads. And that's not due to the 'dark' subject matter, but to the enormity of the questions that were put out throughout the series. People refused to look past the personality changing every episode in order to try and understand what was being asked of them, particularly questions about humanity; how far can we pushed, can our core ever be removed etc. I honestly think it is a much more complex, deep and fascinating show than it's given credit for.

As for 'us' only liking it because it's Whedon, I'd disagree. Things like that can make it sound as if people will pretend or force themselves to like something because it's got his name on it. I saw the premise, I thought it looked awesome and it really is one of the most fascinating, thought-provoking and intriguing shows I've ever watched. So why did it fail? Beats me.

 

[Washburne]

As for 'us' only liking it because it's Whedon, I'd disagree. Things like that can make it sound as if people will pretend or force themselves to like something because it's got his name on it.

I don't think people love it because it's Whedon and had Eliza in it. Pretending to like something "just because..." is silly. Hopefully we're more mature than that. But I do think those facts made a lot of Whedon fans give the show more time than we had if it had been someone else. And to me it seems like the more episodes you've watched the bigger chance you have of loving the show. But maybe that's just my imagination.

Every reason people claim to be the reason why people didn't watch or like it is personal or in general view. Of course it won't be true for every single viewer. Just enough (all reasons together including some that might not been brought up here) to get the low ratings leading to it being canceled.

 

[Icarium]

It just wasn't all that great of a show, IMO Sure, there are plenty of terrible shows which are successful but Dollhouse also had a somewhat pretentious vibe which probably repelled quite a few viewers. For my money, it also demanded an awful lot of suspension of disbelief. Half of the tasks for which Dolls were hired coudl easily have been done by much cheaper ordinary people. There was also the interview of Tim Minear in which he said how they decided that you know who (I don't want to spoil) was going to be The Big Bad after writing the first season. That's totally amateurish, IMO and it comes off as "plot twist for a sake of a plot twist".

Also, ED being outperformed by just about any member of the credited cast didn't help at all. Hearing how special Echo is twenty times per episode didn't make me love her...I wonder why?

 

[TheVoid68]

Did you watch the whole show? There's no doubt that it's true in the first season but things changed. At which time people had already given up on the show so it was too late. I wonder how the first season had been if Joss had been able to make it the way he wanted. No guarantee that it had been better but it would be fun to compare it with how it finally was made.

I watched a few episodes and then gave up. I think that it is the duty of a show to hook a viewer, if not in the first episode, then at least the first three. I had heard that it got better later on, but considering I cannot get the show where I live and so had to go through convulted (read: illegal) methods in order to see it, I decided it just wasn't worth my time.

I have always said I find it to be Whedon's most mature writing and that a lot of it went over people's heads. And that's not due to the 'dark' subject matter, but to the enormity of the questions that were put out throughout the series. People refused to look past the personality changing every episode in order to try and understand what was being asked of them, particularly questions about humanity; how far can we pushed, can our core ever be removed etc. I honestly think it is a much more complex, deep and fascinating show than it's given credit for.

But here's the kicker: Why should people care? Seriously, why should we give a crap about these philosphical, unaswerable questions? I think most people, myself included, just don't care. And if we started jonesing for some philisophy, we'd probably pick up a book. People watch the television to sit back, relax, and be entertained.

Of course I'm not suggesting the removal of thought-provoking, intelligent ideas from television, far from it. But it should be wrapped up in entertainment. Generally speaking, if you're not entertained or invested in something, you don't really want to think more about it.

I don't think it "went over people's heads". I think that most people just decided they didn't care enough to lift their head up. And that's not the fault of the viewers, that's the fault of the show for failing to fulfil what is required of a good show - a combination of entertainment alongside philosophical musings.

It is subjective, you managed to become attached to the main character, and good for you. But we're not discussing the reasons why we think the show is good/bad/whatever, we're discussing the reasons why it failed. And I think that one of the main reasons was the main character's failure to engage the audience, which is largely down to her ever-changing personality, as well as the uninspired, and ultimately unentertaining dialogue.

 

[Washburne]

I watched a few episodes and then gave up. I think that it is the duty of a show to hook a viewer, if not in the first episode, then at least the first three.

At least hooked enough. The show didn't get good enough for a lot of people until later on and at that time most people had already given up on it.


So let the discussion about why people didn't think it was good enough at the beginning, or for some the whole show.

 

[Flannen]

But here's the kicker: Why should people care? Seriously, why should we give a crap about these philosphical, unaswerable questions? I think most people, myself included, just don't care. And if we started jonesing for some philisophy, we'd probably pick up a book. People watch the television to sit back, relax, and be entertained.

Of course I'm not suggesting the removal of thought-provoking, intelligent ideas from television, far from it. But it should be wrapped up in entertainment. Generally speaking, if you're not entertained or invested in something, you don't really want to think more about it.

You may watch television for that, as may many other people, but I prefer to watch shows, as I do with films and reading books, that challenge me, that make me think, that haunt me for days. For me, that's a mark of a good TV show. I guess if most people only watch TV to relax and be entertained then a show like Dollhouse will fail. But as well as challenging it completely entertained me too. Winner.

And I also like the fact that other mediums like television and film try to use some of the things from 'books' that people aren't as inclined to pick up and read.

I don't think it "went over people's heads". I think that most people just decided they didn't care enough to lift their head up. And that's not the fault of the viewers, that's the fault of the show for failing to fulfil what is required of a good show - a combination of entertainment alongside philosophical musings.

It's a combination of both: the fault of both the TV show and the viewer. Maybe people who didn't care enough to see that side of Dollhouse like I did, don't care enough to see that side in anything or any aspect of life.

It is subjective, you managed to become attached to the main character, and good for you. But we're not discussing the reasons why we think the show is good/bad/whatever, we're discussing the reasons why it failed. And I think that one of the main reasons was the main character's failure to engage the audience, which is largely down to her ever-changing personality, as well as the uninspired, and ultimately unentertaining dialogue.

Well you gave reasons why it failed as reasons why the show was bad. You think it failed for the reasons you disliked the show. I stated why I find it hard to see where and why it failed, it's the same thing. It is good for me that I engaged with the characters, and I'm sad for you that you didn't because I found them to be some of Whedon's most multi-faceted, intriguing characters.

And again, I loved Echo's character and didn't find the dialogue or plot 'uninspiring' or 'unentertaining'. You're more than welcome to think it failed for those reasons, my main point was that they are not the definitive reasons why it failed.

I agree with what Washburne said, the reason for its failure is a combination of all things mentioned here, and probably more, but that doesn't mean to say that everyone is going to agree with those reasons. And whatever those reasons, I think it was a darn shame! 😉

 

[Thursday]

(WARNING AND APOLOGY: LONGISH POST FOLLOWS)

Even though I have already posted my opinions on DH in this thread, I'm posting again as I realize what I said before was off-topic as it stated my opinion on the show but this thread isn't really asking if DH was a good show or not. It's asking if DH was a failure.

And, honestly, I don't think Dollhouse is a failure, and if it is, it's way too soon to tell-- the show's barely been off the air a year. DH's first season isn't regarded as television gold, but the show was renewed for a second season. So many other shows, like Firefly, never even got that. And if you're judging a show on how many episodes it aired wouldn't Firefly be considered a failure, too? And what about critics' reviews? DH reviews were mixed, but so were the reviews for Firefly (check out Wikipedia if you don't believe me). Yet even though DH and Firefly have these things in common, I don't think anyone would consider Firefly a failure; it doesn't matter if you like the show or not.

The fans are the ones who kept Firefly alive, the ones who maybe kept it from being a “failure.” Maybe DH has such dedicated fans, I don’t know. Maybe DH fans will keep the show’s momentum going. I don’t know if people will still talk about DH years from now, but I don’t believe anyone can brand something a “classic” or a “failure” so soon. We can say whether we like it or not or argue why it’s not as successful as it could’ve been, but I think labeling DH a failure is putting the cart before the horse.

If I had to say why I don’t think DH was as successful as it could have been, it’s because I believe the show was a victim of its own hype. I was super-hyped for the show because of all the great things that had been said in interviews and magazines and Whedon fans were creating “Save Dollhouse!” forums before the show even aired. How did they even know it was worth saving? They’d never seen an episode. I think critics and fans, including myself, expected so much from the show out of the gate, that there’s no way it could’ve delivered.

 

[Misty]

Don't get me wrong I really like Dollhouse, but I could see why some people might not like it. The end of the first season was good but the whole season itself wasn't very good in my opinion, because I didn't really like how the other characters weren't really shown alot. But the second season was really good because it was interested, whereas the first season was kind of boring.

 

[Tsquared]

Now I love Dollhouse, I mean I'm the main star's biggest fan, but I definitely can see why it failed from an unbiased point of view. I think Flannen mentioned it in her post, but now that I've rewatched a lot of the episodes it failed because one main reason - it lacked luster. Shows like Buffy had originality, humor, and had progression throughout its seasons. These qualities have the ability to bring in NEW fans, not just call back most of the old ones. And I think to have a lot of standalone episodes, you have to either be GREAT or some kind of crime show. And DH had a lot of em', though it wasn't always JW's fault.

Ugh, Dollhouse definitely had a lot of potential though. I guess deep down I saw the end coming from the beginning, I just never admitted to myself. 🙁