Why did Joyce trust Spike so much?

[Chosen Enemy]

From the beginning Joyce seemed to like Spike. Or, let's make it simpler, she trusted him. Why? He was a vampire, he didn't have a soul, he tried to kill her daughter who hated him. She didn't trust Angel, even when he had a soul. Yet, with Spike she gave him cocoa and had long conversations with him.

Has he ever given her a reason to trust him? Or maybe Spike is just good with mothers?

 

[Steven123]

I just think it was because she viewed Angel as the road block to her daughter having a "normal life" and she didn't like that a lot of Buffy's focus was on Angel for a time.

As with Spike he never really tried to harm her (Joyce) and i suppose once she found out Buffy was the Slayer that if Spike posed her any real harm he would have been dead (again lol) already.

 

[sosa lola]

I don't really think she trusted him so much. When she learned that Spike has feelings for Buffy, she was really disturbed.

WILLOW: Well, he ... he actually told you? He, he said, "I love you"?
BUFFY: Well, I-I didn't let him get that far, but ... I could see the words coming.
JOYCE: Honey, did you ... somehow, unintentionally, lead him on in any way? Uh, send him signals?
BUFFY: (ponders) Well, I ... I do beat him up a lot. For Spike that's like third base.

Joyce looks upset, stands up.

WILLOW: Buffy, um ... I'm really worried.
JOYCE: So am I. He could become dangerous.
BUFFY: Not really. As long as it's still chips ahoy in Spike's head he can't hurt me, or any of us. You know, besides, this'll probably just blow over. You know? It's just some weird Spike thing. He'll have the hots for some gak demon before we know it.
WILLOW: I don't know. Uh, these things can, can become pretty twisted.
JOYCE: (comes back to sit down again) Yeah, and Spike, I mean, he's...
BUFFY: Pretty twisted.
JOYCE: Yeah.

 

[Cast No Shadow]

To be honest, I've never looked at it any deeper than it was funny. All of the scenes where Joyce appeared to trust Spike were played for laughs.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

I agree with that it was different with Angel. Not that different though. While the reponse in Crush to finding out about Spike's love for her daughter was appropiate, as [MENTION=7613]sosa lola[/MENTION] said above, I find it weird that she would small talk with Spike after finding out he tried to kill Buffy. Then the chocolate, and the joking in Crush. It was all too weird.

I was just in the thread about how Angel tried to kill Wesley because he endangered Connor's life, and now thinking about Joyce's reaction to Spike seems like really bad writing. She might have released he was with a chip (doesn't excuse Lover's walk) later on and not want him dead, but he tried to kill her daughter. It doesn't make any sense.

 

[Kairos]

I don't think she trusted him or even liked him that much. She treated him like she treated everyone else: if you're in her house and respecting that you're in her house, she'll be polite and ply you with snacks. Same goes for being in his crypt; she respects that she's in his home. Sort of a guest right thing.

 

[white avenger]

I think that Spike did something with Joyce that Angel never did. He showed her that he had real emotions and that he wasn't afraid to show them, even so far as to cry about Drusilla leaving him. Angel might be just as emotional as Spike, but, just looking at him, you are hard pressed to recognize his emotions. Spike celebrates or grieves whenever appropriate, and he does it openly. If Angel experiences a sad situation, he locks himself up in a dark room and broods. If he experiences a happy situation, he locks himself in that same room and broods about what's going to happen when the happy moment ends. That's something of an exaggeration, certainly, but the point is, basically, the only one who ever saw any real tender emotions from Angel while he was in Sunnydale was Buffy.

Joyce might not have seen Spike as a suitable boyfriend for her daughter (almost certainly didn't, in fact) but she didn't see Angel as being one bit more suitable.

Both Angel and Spike had at one time tried to kill Buffy, so they were on equal ground in that area. The inescapable fact is that Spike is just more charming and likable than Ol' Broody, and Joyce is a sucker for a charming man.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

I think that Spike did something with Joyce that Angel never did. He showed her that he had real emotions and that he wasn't afraid to show them, even so far as to cry about Drusilla leaving him. Angel might be just as emotional as Spike, but, just looking at him, you are hard pressed to recognize his emotions. Spike celebrates or grieves whenever appropriate, and he does it openly. If Angel experiences a sad situation, he locks himself up in a dark room and broods. If he experiences a happy situation, he locks himself in that same room and broods about what's going to happen when the happy moment ends. That's something of an exaggeration, certainly, but the point is, basically, the only one who ever saw any real tender emotions from Angel while he was in Sunnydale was Buffy.

Joyce might not have seen Spike as a suitable boyfriend for her daughter (almost certainly didn't, in fact) but she didn't see Angel as being one bit more suitable.

Both Angel and Spike had at one time tried to kill Buffy, so they were on equal ground in that area. The inescapable fact is that Spike is just more charming and likable than Ol' Broody, and Joyce is a sucker for a charming man.

While I can agree that Spike must have seemed more charming to Joyce(not that that should be enough of a reason) than Angel, I believe that Buffy told Joyce about Angel's soulbusiness after Lover's walk, to explain why she invited him in, so in Joyce's eyes, they shouldn't have stood on equal ground, considering one used to be a murder, and one still was.

 

[Icarium]

The Summers women have a rare genetic disorder which results in trusting blonde vampires too much. And that's how Buffy made the conclusion that Dawn must be made of her. 😀

 

[white avenger]

in Joyce's eyes, they shouldn't have stood on equal ground, considering one used to be a murder, and one still was.

They didn't. Joyce liked Spike more than Angel. Unequal ground by anyone's standard.

Maybe she liked Spike the most because she didn't see him as an immediate threat to Buffy's life or as an ultimate threat to her future happiness. Joyce almost certainly saw Spike as someone who was trying to come to grips with what was obviously a bad relationship, something that she could certainly identify with, and she saw Angel as her daughter's boyfriend, a boyfriend who she saw as not only not good enough for her daughter, but as an actual, tangible threat to her very life.

Besides, we're talking about Spike here. Just that fact tips the scales in his favor with the ladies, especially the Summers ladies.

 

[Gum Gnome33]

Here's what I think:

Joyce liked the company of Spike more than that of Angel, because Spike was charismatic, entertaining, and sought her advice. But as long as she was alive, her daughter wasn't actually romantically involved with him.

To a parent, (I think!), the crimes of the person who is dating your child are always far worse than those of anyone else. Once it was clear that Spike actually wanted to be with Buffy, I think Joyce liked the idea of him a whole lot less.

I mean, I think if you asked her, Joyce would say that she wasn't the biggest fan of Riley's after he left her daughter, and he wasn't exactly a vampire!

 

[Skytteflickan88]

They didn't. Joyce liked Spike more than Angel. Unequal ground by anyone's standard.

I was refering to your comment about equal ground.

Maybe she liked Spike the most because she didn't see him as an immediate threat to Buffy's life or as an ultimate threat to her future happiness. Joyce almost certainly saw Spike as someone who was trying to come to grips with what was obviously a bad relationship, something that she could certainly identify with, and she saw Angel as her daughter's boyfriend, a boyfriend who she saw as not only not good enough for her daughter, but as an actual, tangible threat to her very life.

If she did think that, she's not a good mother. Spike was a murderer who until season 5 wanted to murder her daughter. Then he was a murder who was in love with his daughter, which could possibly be a bigger threat if he didn't take no for a answer(atleast she was worried abot this in Crush, that's something in her favor). A guy who currently had a soul and didn't want to kill her daughter should not have been seen as the bigger threat. I mean, both were, considering Angel's curse, but one was a much bigger threat.