Why did the First never show up as Buffy?

Z

zobothehobo

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Why did the First never come to any of the Scoobies/potentials as Buffy? It could have done MAJOR damage if the Scoobies/potentials thought they were talking to/taking orders from Buffy. I mean looking like/being Buffy was a very powerful weapon it had... I just don't understand how it could not have known it had that gigantic weapon.
 
It seemed that the First didn't care much about trying to be in control over the Scoobies. It's main MO was to induce guilt and regret to the recepients of its visits. Well, of course it did try to control Spike via the trigger.
 
I'm pretty sure by showing up as Buffy saying stuff to Willow and making her do the right kind of spell, it could have made her go dark which would have been super plus on the side of the First. Also, Andrew has always struck me as kind of stupid. If the First as Buffy came to him and told him some of the girls weren't fighters, would get in the way, and needed to be taken care of... he might have done it. Also the First as Buffy could have told Spike not to cooperate and try to de-activate the trigger because they could "use it to their advantage." Like a "use they're own weapon against them" sort of thing. I mean all of the things the First as Buffy could do with/to the Scoobies would be REALLY OOC but quite frankly, while I love season 7, everyone other than Spike and Buffy seem to have gotten REALLY stupid.

Also, the First as Buffy could have made the potentials doubt themselves so much which seemed to be something the First enjoyed doing.
 
Well, the Scoobies weren't stupid. It strikes me as likely that if they didn't see the First as Buffy touch anything when they were talking to her, that they would have either tried to touch it, or make it touch something. Or even throw something at it.

I agree that it would have caused major damage, but the points of the show you are talking about, it just wasn't possible. Maybe at the very BEGINNING of the season, before they knew about the First and such, then that would have been a different story.
 
SlayerOfVampyrs said:
Well, the Scoobies weren't stupid. It strikes me as likely that if they didn't see the First as Buffy touch anything when they were talking to her, that they would have either tried to touch it, or make it touch something. Or even throw something at it.

I agree that it would have caused major damage, but the points of the show you are talking about, it just wasn't possible. Maybe at the very BEGINNING of the season, before they knew about the First and such, then that would have been a different story.
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Yeah, but the Scoobies wouldn't have thought the First could be Buffy because she was alive. They would have figured it out, but I doubt they would think "hey, there's Buffy. We have to go touch her to make sure she's not the First." I high doubt they'd do that because they didn't do that. I mean if they thought she could be the First, you're right. They would have done that. But they didn't.

Maybe at the beginning would have been better... I just don't see what they could do then.
 
H
Hero
thanks for clarifying :)
zobothehobo said:
Why did the First never come to any of the Scoobies/potentials as Buffy? It could have done MAJOR damage if the Scoobies/potentials thought they were talking to/taking orders from Buffy. I mean looking like/being Buffy was a very powerful weapon it had... I just don't understand how it could not have known it had that gigantic weapon.
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Wow... That's a REALLY good point. I never thought of that before, but you're right; if they thought they were taking orders from Buffy, imagine the damage The First could have done using Giles, Willow, Xander, or Dawn.
 
Revolver said:
the First just wasn't that bright. i mean, anyone can pass first grade evil. that's like....the lowest grade.
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I was going to write this answer, but you beat me to it. I would have loved to see The First!Buffy playing with the Scoobies, it would have made Empty Places make more sense.
 
Good point, I presume that the whole touching thing plays a role in the reasons. (Is that fanwanking?)

It would have been to see some sort of scene with the scoobies making a rule about touching something to prove yourself before each conversation. Or at least some reference that such a rule existed.
 
SlayerOfVampyrs said:
Well, the Scoobies weren't stupid. It strikes me as likely that if they didn't see the First as Buffy touch anything when they were talking to her, that they would have either tried to touch it, or make it touch something. Or even throw something at it.
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I'm not so sure about that - didn't Eve live with them undetected for nearly two days? i mean - how did she get into bed at night, eat, brush her teeth, train?
 
Yeah, the idea that the Scoobies were on the lookout for the First in disguise goes out of the window when you consider the Chloe/Giles fiascos.

Short answer - The First was even more braindead than the Scoobies were in S7.
 
FetalPig said:
I'm not so sure about that - didn't Eve live with them undetected for nearly two days? i mean - how did she get into bed at night, eat, brush her teeth, train?
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This is true. I never considered that.

Short - I now retract my dead-fish like flimsy debate, I agree with just about every post here. Though, season 7 has a lot of holes. If the First was smart, he would have just gone in and killed Buffy and the potentials...I mean...He had the means to do it...I'm just sayin'.
 
Well, the First did show up as Buffy...to Buffy in "Chosen," and as Buffy in "Showtime," as well as Eve in "Showtime," and Chloe in "Get It Done," I think had it shown up to Willow, Xander, or Giles - they would have caught on. As in Willow's case, it didn't take her long enough to figure out Cassie as The First wasn't really Cassie.
 
Z
zobothehobo
I mean why did the First never show itself as Buffy until Chosen
I love this thread idea Zobo and have to give props to you for thinking about it.

I guess that you have to look at exactly what kind of monster the first was. It wasn't a combat tank like Adam or Glory. It wasn't diabolically suave and intelligent like Angelus. Nor was it visually scary like The Master and it certainly couldn't compete with Dark Willow as a magical entity.

What it was really, was insidious. It was the nasty little voice inside everybody, the one that whispers in the dark. I think it was actually too cocky and liked the sound of its own voice too much. It thought it could outwit its enemies, play games of destruction and insanity with them. Most times, it chose to appear to people as those they held weaknesses for, like loved ones. Spike saw Buffy, Andrew saw Warren, etc. When it did manifest in other guises it was often as the person themselves, Buffy and Buffy, Spike and Spike. This was to play on their self doubt, weakening their decisions and determination or resistance.

Whenever it did show up as other characters, like Chloe or Eve, then that was to work upon potentials mostly, of which we didn't get to learn enough about to know who was their weaknesses, so it didn't really matter. As a side bit of mind games, doing so did then throw into the mix the terrible thought "it can be anyone" so thus sowing seeds of distrust amongst the whole group rather than individuals.

When it showed up to Willow it was written to be Tara, but Amber wasn't available so they had to hurriedly rewrite it and used Cassie, purely down to availability.

All that said, there is no denying Zobo's logic, or its staggering validity, so yeah, "Why didn't it show p as Buffy?" 🙂
 
H
Hero
even if it was as the first i still wudda loved to see tara again
For that matter, why did it never show up to Buffy as Angel?

I think The First was kinda like Glory; focused one one thing, and one thing only. Not really smart enough to think about anything else; to make any other plans.
 
Or perhaps the First realized that appearing as Buffy to the Scoobies/the Potentials would not be that damaging as it was to Spike. Perhaps Buffy wasn't that much of a trigger to them. The Potentials did not love her and had no trouble with rejecting her leadership for Faith. As for the Scoobies, they had their own personal demons that probably had nothing to do with Buffy. They had an odd view of her. Although they tend to put her on the pedestal as "The Slayer", they had no trouble disregarding her when it came to their private lives.
 
Abbeycat
Abbeycat
[No message]
I'd say it didn't need to...

We noticed that the First Evil always told the truth when it posed as someone, be it Nikki Wood or any other dead person... so when it came down to it, why pose as Buffy to tell the truth? Would it change anything? Buffy was doing a fantastic job of screwing things up enough on her own, i don't think the First whispering demotivational speeches at everyone could have changed anything that much...

If anything, i think it would have been a lot more shocking and worrying if Giles had actually turned out to be the First Evil... that would have truly shaken the scoobies to the core

M
 
Haha saw the post and was like "The First was buffy at one point" then I read your post, and very interesting point. The first could have done some major damage for sure being Buffy to one of the Poteintal's or Slayerettes. They could have done a reallyt killer episode in my opinion with that. I wounder why with Joss's brilliant mind he didn't come up with tha. Hmm we will never know/ but seriously interesting point, I wish they would have done that. Could have been a great plot.
 
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