J
Why Do People Hate Warren?
- Thread starter LittleMissLikesToFight
- Start date
Lou
Scooby
I think why I didn't like him was BECAUSE he was too good. Joss is always so good at showing "both sides" of people.
There are rarely in humans that he just creates as evil. (Other than that kid in Angel that was souless.) I think the best part of the show was showing how everyone does things for their own reasons and if you look close enough there is usually SOME PART that even if you don't agree with, you can see how they got there.
And it always bugs me that I can't find anything in Warren that makes sense. It would have helped me with two things.
I think it wouldn't have made Warren's actions seem so POINTLESS at times. He really just seemed to be bopping from one weird thing to another. Like going from the freeze and invisiblity ray to the weird "mind rape" ball.
And it would have helped me see more why it was BAD for Willow to go after him. I never wanted her to get Andrew and Jonathan, but I was cheering on the edge of my seat when she went after Warren. If he had been SLIGHTLY more likeable...or if he simply had "his side of the story" I would have still been hurting for Willow but able to see why hunting him down like a rabid bunny was so horrible.
There are rarely in humans that he just creates as evil. (Other than that kid in Angel that was souless.) I think the best part of the show was showing how everyone does things for their own reasons and if you look close enough there is usually SOME PART that even if you don't agree with, you can see how they got there.
And it always bugs me that I can't find anything in Warren that makes sense. It would have helped me with two things.
I think it wouldn't have made Warren's actions seem so POINTLESS at times. He really just seemed to be bopping from one weird thing to another. Like going from the freeze and invisiblity ray to the weird "mind rape" ball.
And it would have helped me see more why it was BAD for Willow to go after him. I never wanted her to get Andrew and Jonathan, but I was cheering on the edge of my seat when she went after Warren. If he had been SLIGHTLY more likeable...or if he simply had "his side of the story" I would have still been hurting for Willow but able to see why hunting him down like a rabid bunny was so horrible.
LittleMissLikesToFight
Into Every Generation...
Elithustra
Be with the one you love
Dlou - I don't see how Warren was good, I really don't. If anyone from the Trio was any good, it was probably Andrew, and even then only because his own shadow scared him most of the time.
Warren, as a 'bad guy' was rather unexpected. After Buffy battling so many actual demons and whatnot, to have her battling an actual human, that was unexpected and refreshing. Yet I also feel the entire Trio thing was drawn-out and, for me, pointless as such a large storyline. But thereagain, that is just me!
Warren, as a 'bad guy' was rather unexpected. After Buffy battling so many actual demons and whatnot, to have her battling an actual human, that was unexpected and refreshing. Yet I also feel the entire Trio thing was drawn-out and, for me, pointless as such a large storyline. But thereagain, that is just me!
L
Lou
What I meant was TOO GOOD at being BAD!
Legate Damar
Townie
I think that Warren was an excellent villain for Season 6. He (and really, the whole season) was about a being changeup after 5 seasons of fastballs.
After fighting an ever-more-powerful Big Bad each season, Season 6 was about living a normal life. Buffy's arc was about all the trivial difficulties that accumulate to overtake you when you're not paying attention. And the Trio was the villain version of that. They weren't ever dangerous, they were just annoying and prevented Buffy from doing more important things (like come to terms with the fact that she's alive and healthy and the world got by without her.) Even after all of their tech/magic/demon hijinx, the only damage that the Trio ever actually does is when Warren buys a cheap gun. It's like if Superman beats all of his arch-nemesises consecutively, then dies because of a blood clot.
I think Warren's character actually did progress (albeit in an evil direction) as becoming ever-more-obsessed with proving his own potency. Whereas Jonathon has a moral compass (once he's reminded of it), Warren never stands a chance. At no point can he ever defeat the slayer, but in each appearance and after each defeat, he gets incrementally more militant in his need to defeat her (and thereby prove his own value to himself.) I also think it's interesting to watch him slowly corrupt Andrew by simply having a more powerful personality than Jonathon.
After fighting an ever-more-powerful Big Bad each season, Season 6 was about living a normal life. Buffy's arc was about all the trivial difficulties that accumulate to overtake you when you're not paying attention. And the Trio was the villain version of that. They weren't ever dangerous, they were just annoying and prevented Buffy from doing more important things (like come to terms with the fact that she's alive and healthy and the world got by without her.) Even after all of their tech/magic/demon hijinx, the only damage that the Trio ever actually does is when Warren buys a cheap gun. It's like if Superman beats all of his arch-nemesises consecutively, then dies because of a blood clot.
I think Warren's character actually did progress (albeit in an evil direction) as becoming ever-more-obsessed with proving his own potency. Whereas Jonathon has a moral compass (once he's reminded of it), Warren never stands a chance. At no point can he ever defeat the slayer, but in each appearance and after each defeat, he gets incrementally more militant in his need to defeat her (and thereby prove his own value to himself.) I also think it's interesting to watch him slowly corrupt Andrew by simply having a more powerful personality than Jonathon.
B
Blondie Bear
Well said!
Amber Benson
Currently Pending
Okay. When I read the topic, the first thing that comes to mind is that I hated him because he killed Tara.
But after actually thinking about it... I didn't mind him... most of the time... the thing I hated ABOUT him was his misogynistic way of speaking... how he said 'baby' all the time... I've always hated that term of endearment... makes me cringe lol
I actually think I hated Kennedy more than Warren... weird.
But after actually thinking about it... I didn't mind him... most of the time... the thing I hated ABOUT him was his misogynistic way of speaking... how he said 'baby' all the time... I've always hated that term of endearment... makes me cringe lol
I actually think I hated Kennedy more than Warren... weird.
J
Joyce Summers
Or then again, not so weird.....hehe
Hello Cutie
Save_us.222
The whole point of Warren is that we're supposed to hate him, and the fact that you're asking why so many people hate him is a perfect way of showing that Joss and co got the character perfect in every way!
Warren is the epitome of alot of the bad things that man can be in real life. I love that the as a bad guy, he's real and believable, in the sense that you could quite easily meet a Warren while walking down the street. I dated one for a year, and the character of Warren and the way they made him was perfect.
While he hates women, he fears them, and this is where his misogynistic tendencies come from. He has no real love for women, beyond a desire to control, which is what's shown first with April ('I was made to love you') and then subsequently in 'Dead Things', where he enslaves Katrina against her will. He didn't love her, not in the normal sense of the word, but loved the idea of having power over her, having a woman who he could get to do everything he wanted.
He becomes increasingly unstable as the season continues, as his life starts to unravel and people realise what he's really like (i assume that up until Dead Things, Jonathon and Andrew had no idea what Warren was really like, as he probably went to some trouble to come across as something different, or at least make his misogynism 'cool' and probably somewhat harmless).
So Buffy, to him, represents everything he hates in women- she is stronger than him, both physically and mentally, she can't be bullied or intimidated (which is sort what they are trying to do when they test her in 'Life Serial') and to be honest, she's not scared or put off by him and is little group in the least (where she asks if they've banded together to be pains in her ass).
He can't deal with that (I guess alot of men would have a problem with a woman being so much more powerful than they are... even Xander has made reference to it every now and then, and has had slight struggles with it) and so he becomes more unhinged, eventually going to any length to 'cut her down to size' as it were, showing he has the power and he can do what he wants, she can't stop her, and he is basically, better than her; and so shooting her, and accidently killing Tara in the process.
So basically, he's created to be the epitome of a person you could quite easily find in everyday life, and I think alot of people (concious or subconciously) pick up on that, and that's why the hatred for him goes deeper than with alot of the other villans in Buffy... I certainly hate him the most out of all the villans for that reason, anyway.
[sorry that this was such a long post.... i get carried away sometimes!]
Warren is the epitome of alot of the bad things that man can be in real life. I love that the as a bad guy, he's real and believable, in the sense that you could quite easily meet a Warren while walking down the street. I dated one for a year, and the character of Warren and the way they made him was perfect.
While he hates women, he fears them, and this is where his misogynistic tendencies come from. He has no real love for women, beyond a desire to control, which is what's shown first with April ('I was made to love you') and then subsequently in 'Dead Things', where he enslaves Katrina against her will. He didn't love her, not in the normal sense of the word, but loved the idea of having power over her, having a woman who he could get to do everything he wanted.
He becomes increasingly unstable as the season continues, as his life starts to unravel and people realise what he's really like (i assume that up until Dead Things, Jonathon and Andrew had no idea what Warren was really like, as he probably went to some trouble to come across as something different, or at least make his misogynism 'cool' and probably somewhat harmless).
So Buffy, to him, represents everything he hates in women- she is stronger than him, both physically and mentally, she can't be bullied or intimidated (which is sort what they are trying to do when they test her in 'Life Serial') and to be honest, she's not scared or put off by him and is little group in the least (where she asks if they've banded together to be pains in her ass).
He can't deal with that (I guess alot of men would have a problem with a woman being so much more powerful than they are... even Xander has made reference to it every now and then, and has had slight struggles with it) and so he becomes more unhinged, eventually going to any length to 'cut her down to size' as it were, showing he has the power and he can do what he wants, she can't stop her, and he is basically, better than her; and so shooting her, and accidently killing Tara in the process.
So basically, he's created to be the epitome of a person you could quite easily find in everyday life, and I think alot of people (concious or subconciously) pick up on that, and that's why the hatred for him goes deeper than with alot of the other villans in Buffy... I certainly hate him the most out of all the villans for that reason, anyway.
[sorry that this was such a long post.... i get carried away sometimes!]
B
Blondie Bear
Exactly!
LittleMissLikesToFight
Into Every Generation...
first, ican't believe this thread has carried on so long heehee. second, i dunno, im drawn to the insanity that is warren. like i said, maybe its because he IS such a well done character, that i like him. Not necessarily liking what he stands for but... i dunno it's hard for me to explain. He's one of my favorite characters though because i think he is one of the best constructed.
Hello Cutie
Save_us.222
i completely understand why... do love him because I think he's possibly one of THE best constructed characters they ever did in Buffy, and definitely one of the most realistic.
But as a character I hate him for the way he is (it helps that he epitomises alot of what ive been out with previously, so i can pour my hate into that character 😛) and its because i hate him so much that i love him... does that even make sense????
disco biscuit
Slayer of Vampyres!
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2008
- Messages
- 33
He just annoyed me for some reason. But mainly, I don't like him because he killed Tara. X( And his chest is just nasty. Ewww.
But I love Andrew! And I loved Jonathan, too, but he got worse over time.
But I love Andrew! And I loved Jonathan, too, but he got worse over time.
LittleMissLikesToFight
Into Every Generation...
yeah Jonathon got quite...shifty as time went on. even the spell he did in Superstar... i understand his plight but he put so many people in danger, not to mention played with the entire world in essence.
Always loved Andrew.
Always loved Andrew.
I don't hate Warren-- he kind of made for an interesting character. He was also that particular season's "villian". I didn't like him obviously because he shot Buffy-- but other than that he was okay.
LittleMissLikesToFight
yay! now i don't feel so alone in my thinking lol
TheHeartist
The BB poster with a soul
In essence, he is responsible for triggering the near end of the world. And the whole sniveling (sp?) coward thing isn't really going for him that well!
Vicariously
living in a fantasy world
I dont think I hated Warren. He just lacked in comparison to big bads like Glory and Caleb. He wasnt as fun to watch maybe thats why so many people prefer those big bads. The mayor was alot like Warren I think. An excellent charcter yes but not compelling to watch in my opinion. But I think the writers and actor did there job. They wanted us to hate Warren and most of us did. I know I was kiddy when he was killed. but I was when all the big bads where killed. but Glory was just so compelling to watch. She was my favorite big bad because she was just fantastic and fun to watch. And Warren and the mayor where just kinda boring.