Question Why do some fans want Buffy to be weak?

EVIL UU

Scooby
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Alright, why do some fans want Buffy to be weak? Why do they want her traumatized, disempowered or generally miserable, completely against the themes of the show? You know, this Buffy should go back to my favorite vampireâ„¢ because this time it's totally not gonna end with misery and terror and this Spike took out two slayers, he should be stronger than Buffy! and this Buffy should be traumatized more after Spike's rape attempt! Because I say so! nonsense. Why? Is it because Buffy is a female character? Some crazy jealousy at play here? Or maybe sexism? Willow is a girl too and nobody wants her to be traumatized after Spike tries to rape her. Nobody wants her to be weaker than her love interests either. Is it because Willow turns out to be a proverbial bad girl and a lesbian therefore harder to identify with? What is different here? Why do people want the lead character of a power fantasy for goodness' sake, disempowered? Traumatized? Miserable? Why is victimhood more desirable than character's agency and empowerment?

This is some major bullshit. Explain?
 
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slayer6
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I don't know but I know I love Buffy as a strong lead character. I think every character should have a point where they almost lose it all, and are traumatized, but that's only to make us feel for them, strong emotions. But overall the main thing I love about Buffy is her ability to break the stereotypes of only men being strong heroe's. Buffy is a STRONG superhero and I love her for that.
 
Oh boy. Okay, shields up!

I think the primary reason is that Buffy the Vampire Slayer was built, in Joss' own words, as an icon character people could identify with. Rightly or wrongly, people often define themselves, in a variety of different areas. Fictional characters are no exception. I certainly have characters I absolutely love and model myself after, and therefore care about probably a bit more than I should.

When you care for a character that strongly, it's natural to identify with them. Buffy is supposed to be relatable. She was built that way. So when things happen that aren't overly realistic or believable character wise, it gets raised. It happens to the other characters to a lesser extent, but chiefly with Buffy because she's the lead. I think that aspect is magnified on a forum like this one, which obviously is targeted to people who are already really invested in Buffy.
 
KendraTheSlayer
KendraTheSlayer
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For me, it's certain fans that make her weaker, but it's not becasue they want her weaker, it's that they want their certain character stronger.

I dont want to turn this into another Spike thread, but it is my view on this.

A lot of Spike fans seem to see Spike as the main character, anything he does wrong has an explanation, other characters wrong him and so on, the focus becomes him and his struggle, and the fans are so loud about it that the writers have bent to their will and compromised the show for it.

David Fury once compared Spike/Buffy fans to those women who write letters to murders in prison, any version of those people I've seen shows them as weak, needed a man to make them stronger and have crazy ability to justify the wrong a persons done, I think it's a version of that, they hype Spike up to be so good to compensate for his bad that Buffy gets dragged down in the meantime.
 
EVIL UU
EVIL UU
Certainly something to consider.
I wouldn't say it's weak to be somewhat traumatised after a sexual assault. I've heard a lot of people criticise the AR for various different reasons, but the one I agree with most is that on Buffy's show, Spike's attempted rape of Buffy is used mostly as a springboard for SPIKE'S redemption arc- rather than focus on how the victim has been affected (in this case, being the main character on the show), the show seems to focus on how bad the attacker feels about it. I don't think anyone wants that because they want to see Buffy brought low, and obviously people deal with trauma in a lot of different ways, but I can see why people were not happy with how the AR was dealt with, and how little of the emphasis in the aftermath seemed to be on Buffy.

Moving onto some more general points: On the matter of physical strength- obviously, it's not going to be a very interesting storyline if Buffy is stronger than literally everything that she comes up against. A big part of the story is how important her friends are to helping her survive as the Slayer- from helping her fight, to researching, to assisting her in areas that she is not necessarily skilled in herself. The whole of Sunnydale High assists in the battle with the Mayor. Willow, Xander and Giles combine their spirits with Buffy to defeat Adam. Anya comes up with a good deal of the ideas used to batter down Glory, Willow's magic helps to throw her off, too, and it is Giles who deals with Ben to prevent Glory from returning. Xander stops Willow from destroying the world, Anya stops her from killing Andrew and Jonathan, Giles delays her. Willow and Spike do most of the work in the S7 finale, and Angel provides the amulet for Spike. That's just looking at Season finales where Buffy has been assisted by others.

On the matter of emotional strength. Firstly, I think it's important to recognise that showing emotions does not necessarily equate to weakness. It's human, and it's relatable. As is having flaws- all of the characters on both BtVS and Angel are flawed, and I think it does make for more compelling viewing than a bunch of flawless heroes.

Taking the above into account, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing for people to want a lead character with flaws, or who is sometimes physically outmatched, and is forced to look to other ways of defeating her opponents. I think it's people wanting realistic characters.

All that said, however, I do think some of the examples you give- wanting Buffy to be with Vampire X, because Vampire X deserves it, for example- are definitely dodgy. I have posted before in another thread about "Characters A and B should get together because A really wants to be with B!", without mentioning whether it is actually what A wants, but just to repeat, it really annoys me. And I'm not sure that Spike should be weaker than Buffy- yes, he has killed two Slayers, but both looked like fairly evenly matched fights to me, and doesn't Spike basically say in "Fool for Love" that he won because "all a vampire needs is one good day" (i.e. better training, luck, the element of surprise, whatever...) rather than "Because I am awesome and totally stronger than a Slayer"?

In summary, I can understand why people want Buffy - and any lead character - to have flaws, and show emotions. I don't think that this is a particularly sinister thing in general. Though there are certain complaints that seem to indicate that people want Buffy to come off weaker so that another character can look stronger, which irritate me.
 
R
Robb Stark
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Lyri
Lyri
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[MENTION=7585]Kean[/MENTION]
Why does Buffy feeling the full spectrum of emotions equate to being weak?

Why does the ability to cope with a traumatic situation equates to not feeling the full spectrum of emotions?

[MENTION=11975]Robb Stark[/MENTION]
So when things happen that aren't overly realistic or believable character wise, it gets raised.

First two examples are too obvious, I'll skip them. Now, is it believeable that Buffy copes the way she does with the season six rape attempt? Well, we've seen Buffy cope with a rape-like situation. "When She Was Bad" is basically about her dealing, then there's "Sanctuary", we've also seen her handle a rape attempt in "The Pack" and "Go Fish". In light of those episodes, I don't think that the way she acts in season 7 is particularly unbelievable, it does line up with character's history and her introvert personality in my opinion, not to mention her supernatural nature and experiences with vampires. You know, I really don't think that realism is the problem here, I don't like how it is handled but the show provides enough content to consider it believable. No, I think that it goes deeper than that, beyond the plot analysis. I mean, looking at certain opinions, not only on this board, it's like some fans really are upset that Buffy does not suffer as much or isn't as traumatized as they would like to, completely ignoring what actually takes place in the series. It's like they are offended that Buffy dares to be stronger.

I don't get it.

It happens to the other characters to a lesser extent

Personally, I haven't seen it. Especially not with Willow, who is just as much of a strong character as Buffy. Not with Anya, another strong character. Not with male characters.
 
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slayer6
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Buffy does show the ability to cope with trauma, and a lot more of it than most of us cope with in real life. If it takes her a while, or if certain kinds of trauma have a lasting effect on her, I don't see why that's weak.

Anyway the word 'strong' is practically meaningless at this point; it's just the one remaining attribute that we're supposed to look for in female characters. I don't personally give a rat's ass if Buffy is strong. I just want her to be real.
 
L
Living Dead Boy
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